November 20, 2017, 03:20:02 AM

Author Topic: What do the Packers need the most?  (Read 11562 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline golfman

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11580
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2016, 09:14:58 PM »
http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2016/1/1/10697346/mike-mccarthy-and-the-trouble-with-consistency


And..........?

No and, it is an article with a point of view on a subject I've more than made myself clear. I think there is some validity to what the guy is writing.

Made yourself clear?

Care to expound again?

The article, from what I gather, is just more of the same....only a different writer looking for clicks.

But what ever floats your boat.

Yes I've made myself clear. I don't think we'll ever win another Super Bowl with our current HC. I think he got lucky with a QB who was on fire and a defense that played their best in the playoffs. I think he repeatedly makes the same mistakes and do not feel he has improved since his arrival or at least after the first 3 or so years. We expect players to get better and not make the same mistakes, why not coaches? While I know, like the writer states, it won't happen. I do think it should.

You write it off as a 'writer looking for a few clicks!" Whatever floats your boat.
"Make the Packers Great Again! "

Offline Twain

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3018
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2016, 09:45:35 AM »
http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2016/1/1/10697346/mike-mccarthy-and-the-trouble-with-consistency

Interesting how the author chooses to say that every team that has won multiple superbowls with the same QB has done it within four years of the first win, when New England is the defending champ with the same Tom Brady that won his first over 10 years ago.

I am not sure that blaming McCarthy for lack of super bowl wins is fair.  One could argue that Thompson hasn't been able to give him a complete team talent-wise.  In 2011 a great offense with a bad defense.  A lot of focus in the draft on defense has left him without adequate depth on offense this year. 

In 2010 we could "plug and play" street free agents like Walden and make it work.  Trouble is you can't do that with WR's.

The trouble with consistency, in my opinion, is that with heavy D&D philosophy you are always drafting at the bottom of the round.

I think Thompson is a very good GM, but between the limitations of getting free agents to GB combined with an heavy D&D philosophy based on late round picks it is hard to get enough play makers needed to make us clearly the dominant team without a key weakness.  That being said, 3 NFC championship appearances in the last 10 seasons isn't all that bad.  We aren't going down as one of the dynasties of the NFL, but so few teams do even when stocked with an elite QB.

I get the feeling that fans think the next Bill Walsh is out there somewhere, and if we just dump McCarthy we can get on with finding him.  I fear the opposite, that we would get the next Josh McDaniels who was a disaster in Denver- hated by both the assistant coaches and the players.
 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 09:56:14 AM by Twain »
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline golfman

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11580
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2016, 10:38:36 PM »
1. WR that can get open and beat press coverage?
2. LT that can keep Rodgers upright?
3. Pass rushing OLB
4. Head Coaching change?


It's pretty obvious to everyone but the real 'homers' who think a Super Bowl earns a lifetime contract. Guy is outclassed every week now. I don't want to hear about the injuries because every team has them.
"Make the Packers Great Again! "

Offline SSG

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3358
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2016, 11:07:12 PM »
1. WR that can get open and beat press coverage?
2. LT that can keep Rodgers upright?
3. Pass rushing OLB
4. Head Coaching change?


It's pretty obvious to everyone but the real 'homers' who think a Super Bowl earns a lifetime contract. Guy is outclassed every week now. I don't want to hear about the injuries because every team has them.

I agree.  Today for instance, Seattle didn't have either starting Tackle against Carolina.  One of their tackles was seeing his first action at the position.  They are also without their best receiving threat and their top 2 RBs.  Yet Seattle went into Arizona and completely outclassed them.  Seattle doesn't have a plethora of talent at WR, I'd argue that they aren't any more talented then GB.  The difference is coaching.  Carroll and Bevell aren't forcing their QB to play the game with his back against the wall.  They aren't forcing their limited talent at WR to go out and do things that they aren't capable of doing. 

The idea that James Jones, Randall Cobb, D. Adams and Abby are just a bunch of scrub WRs is ridiculous.  While it isn't a world beating unit, its a better until than a lot of the NFL has and is talented enough to win.  Our current coaching staff seems incapable of making it work and I don't see the issue fixing itself next year with a healthy Jordy Nelson.   
Act your age, not your shoe size.

Offline cpk1994

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6299
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2016, 05:57:33 AM »
1. WR that can get open and beat press coverage?
2. LT that can keep Rodgers upright?
3. Pass rushing OLB
4. Head Coaching change?


It's pretty obvious to everyone but the real 'homers' who think a Super Bowl earns a lifetime contract. Guy is outclassed every week now. I don't want to hear about the injuries because every team has them.
OK, I'm tired of your anti-MM agenda garbage. Just answer one question. Who do you want as HC of the Green Bay Packers? As the self proclaimed genius who has all the answers, you should be able to give us a guy who will immediately take the team to the Super Bowl.
"Aaron Rodgers is a baaaaaaad man" - Stephen A. Smith

Offline B

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4084
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2016, 09:56:50 AM »
There are 20 teams sitting on the outside looking in. Now is the time for them to be looking at possible changes, but the full focus of the 12 teams still playing should be solely on how to survive and move on to the next step in the playoff process. As disappointed as we are with the Packers 2nd half of the season collapse, they are still alive and have a punchers chance of moving on to fight another day.

From ESPN http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14496425/offseason-questions-facing-every-non-playoff-nfl-team-nfl Where you will find links to discussion of all of these questions

 Atlanta Falcons: Should veteran receiver Roddy White get to play out his contract?
 Baltimore Ravens: When will quarterback Joe Flacco return from knee surgery?
 Buffalo Bills: Will coach Rex Ryan and GM Doug Whaley enter 2016 on the hot seat?
 Chicago Bears: Should Jay Cutler be the quarterback in 2016?
 Cleveland Browns: Can the Browns count on suspended wide receiver Josh Gordon?
 Dallas Cowboys: With Tony Romo turning 36 in April, is it time to draft a quarterback?
 Detroit Lions: What happens with wide receiver Calvin Johnson?
 Indianapolis Colts: How will the 2015 season impact quarterback Andrew Luck's contract negotiations?
 Jacksonville Jaguars: Will the Jaguars fire defensive coordinator Bob Babich?
 Miami Dolphins: With interim coach Dan Campbell likely out, who will be the new coach?
 New York Giants: Does defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul come back?
 New York Jets: Should the Jets make a long-term commitment to quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick?
 New Orleans Saints: Will quarterback Drew Brees sign an extension?
 Oakland Raiders: Is linebacker Khalil Mack on the verge of superstardom?
 Philadelphia Eagles: After the firing of Chip Kelly, who will be the coach?
 San Diego Chargers: How do the Chargers make Melvin Gordon a productive runner?
 San Francisco 49ers: Should Blaine Gabbert be the starting quarterback?
 St. Louis Rams: Where will the Rams play their home games in 2016?
 Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Should the Bucs re-sign running back Doug Martin?
 Tennessee Titans: Can whoever is running things make the most of the No. 1 pick?
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline b0ss24

  • Rookie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2016, 11:28:05 AM »
To me its like this yes MM makes mistakes sometimes in play calling. He seems to complacent at times. I don't know if he is to stuck in his ways meaning his offence is the only way without changing to the players He has around him witch I think he could do a better job at. He doesn't seem to throw the ball down field enough for my taste but he also has no speed at receiver much less size. Now it seems like he wants a slasher at running back with Cobb playing running back as much Lacy. The starting 5 o-line players are solid with Lane and Tretter being solid backup inside players but no real depth at tackle. I think injury's have taken there toll there case in point the Pats. They've lost 4 out of there last 6 if you cant protect you lose. With Arod as your QB you should always make the playoffs and in that case you will be picking at the bottom of the 1st round witch is hard to find great players. By the way coaching stability is a good thing case in point look at the Steelers 3 head coaches in what 30 years and 6 Super Bowls not bad or you can be the Browns 7 coaches no playoffs in 15 years you choose I would rather have a chance.


A

Offline cpk1994

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6299
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2016, 08:24:58 AM »
To me its like this yes MM makes mistakes sometimes in play calling. He seems to complacent at times. I don't know if he is to stuck in his ways meaning his offence is the only way without changing to the players He has around him witch I think he could do a better job at. He doesn't seem to throw the ball down field enough for my taste but he also has no speed at receiver much less size. Now it seems like he wants a slasher at running back with Cobb playing running back as much Lacy. The starting 5 o-line players are solid with Lane and Tretter being solid backup inside players but no real depth at tackle. I think injury's have taken there toll there case in point the Pats. They've lost 4 out of there last 6 if you cant protect you lose. With Arod as your QB you should always make the playoffs and in that case you will be picking at the bottom of the 1st round witch is hard to find great players. By the way coaching stability is a good thing case in point look at the Steelers 3 head coaches in what 30 years and 6 Super Bowls not bad or you can be the Browns 7 coaches no playoffs in 15 years you choose I would rather have a chance.
Well stated. I would rather stay with the proven commodity who you know will get you to the playoffs every season giving you a shot at the Super Bowl every season over firing that coach and going with a guy who more than likely will be worse. 
"Aaron Rodgers is a baaaaaaad man" - Stephen A. Smith

Offline VoiceofReason

  • All Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 379
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2016, 04:33:39 PM »
Well stated. I would rather stay with the proven commodity who you know will get you to the playoffs every season giving you a shot at the Super Bowl every season over firing that coach and going with a guy who more than likely will be worse.
[/quote]

It's a fair way to look at it.  You can play it safe, or make a bold move.  The last two SBs were won as the result of bold moves.  Wolf/MH SB?  Too many bold moves to mention.  Trading for Favre, signing Reggie White, Howard, Rison, you can go on and on.  The TT/MM SB?  They could have easily held on to Favre for another year, maybe another 3 years.  But they went with Rodgers.  The other bold move was going to the 3-4 defense.  Since then, they have not made a single bold move. No SBs.


Offline SSG

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3358
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2016, 04:43:42 PM »
Well stated. I would rather stay with the proven commodity who you know will get you to the playoffs every season giving you a shot at the Super Bowl every season over firing that coach and going with a guy who more than likely will be worse.

It's a fair way to look at it.  You can play it safe, or make a bold move.  The last two SBs were won as the result of bold moves.  Wolf/MH SB?  Too many bold moves to mention.  Trading for Favre, signing Reggie White, Howard, Rison, you can go on and on. The TT/MM SB?  They could have easily held on to Favre for another year, maybe another 3 years.  But they went with Rodgers.  The other bold move was going to the 3-4 defense.  Since then, they have not made a single bold move. No SBs.
[/quote]

You could add that signing Charles Woodson to a high dollar deal was bold.  Only one other team in football thought he had any football left in him.  We signed him to a large deal that was criticized by a lot of media and he went out and had BY FAR the best stretch of his HOF career. 
Act your age, not your shoe size.

Offline iarwain

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1413
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2016, 11:24:48 PM »
You could add that signing Charles Woodson to a high dollar deal was bold.  Only one other team in football thought he had any football left in him.
Agreed.  By the way, some point to the Woodson signing as proof that Thompson is willing to go big in free agency.  But I've always looked at it more like Woodson dropped in his lap.  As you said, there was practically no competition for him.

Offline B

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4084
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2016, 06:12:23 AM »
The media being critical of the Woodson signing is indicative of how little they really know about filling and running a football team - but since they all stay at Holiday Inn Expresses, nothing will stop them from telling you what experts they are.

Further, there was plenty of interest in Charles Woodson, but only one other team offered him the money TT did and the guarantee that he could stay at CB rather than be moved to safety. Charles believed in himself and his ability and was holding out for what he thought he was worth and playing the position he loved.

The fact that TT had the vision to do both was not luck, rather fine work as a GM. It is legitimate to say that you wish he would make more moves in free agency, but to discredit the success he has had in the few moves he has made rivals the inane idea that all of the playoff wins from a Super Bowl Championship shouldn't count in evaluating Mike McCarthy.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline VoiceofReason

  • All Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 379
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2016, 08:02:35 AM »
Yea, that's the forgotten part of the Woodson signing.  Most teams wanted him at Safety, which really gave the Packers an inside track.  But that's my point, that was a bold move that led to a SB.  Nothing like that has been done since.  And I'm not talking about simply signing FAs.  As I said above, going to the 3-4, drafting and then choosing Rodgers to start over Favre, etc. 

True, that wasn't luck. But it was a gamble to promise an aging CB he could stay at that position. Finally, yea it is ridiculous to say the SB year shouldn't count when evaluating MM.  That's like saying channels don't matter when evaluating cable/sat TV providers!

Offline dannobanano

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4106
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2016, 06:56:05 PM »


It's a fair way to look at it.  You can play it safe, or make a bold move.  The last two SBs were won as the result of bold moves.  Wolf/MH SB?  Too many bold moves to mention.  Trading for Favre, signing Reggie White, Howard, Rison, you can go on and on.  The TT/MM SB?  They could have easily held on to Favre for another year, maybe another 3 years.  But they went with Rodgers.  The other bold move was going to the 3-4 defense.  Since then, they have not made a single bold move. No SBs.


I'll give you the White signing as a bold move, especially with a proven player who was the top FA in all of football. That was a bold move.

The Favre trade was a risky move, that happened to pay off. Atlanta thought they had fleeced Wolf/Packers, but Wolf trusted his evaluation of the talent he saw in Favre. Just think what would have happened if Wolf had still been with the NYJ's instead of the Packers!
Still, it was a risky move in the sense that Favre was like a wild horse who needed to be broken, and the risk was that he may never have been reigned in, plus he had looked miserable in his short time in Atlanta.

As far as Desmond Howard, Andre Rison (and I'll add Don Beebe), go..............they were all picked off the scrap heap because nobody wanted them anymore. They would be what some here would call a typical TT signing of today. So give Ted his props, because he's doing some of the same stuff Wolf did.

Online The GM

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1982
Re: What do the Packers need the most?
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2016, 11:05:20 PM »
Woodson had very little interest from the league when he became a free agent.  Teams were scared of his durability having missed games his final two years in Oakland.  Tampa expressed interest in him as a safety but werent going overspend for him.  Tampa Bay HC Jon Gruden knew him from his Oakland days.  Gotta credit Thompson for seeing  his value, and McCarthy for changing his attitude.  When he got to GB he and McCarthy butted heads, he was viewed as a loner, and high maintenance.  IMO without coming to GB, Charles Woodson isnt a HOFer.  McCarthy reached him and changed him into a leader and the rest is history.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 11:15:00 PM by The GM »