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Author Topic: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?  (Read 19088 times)

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Offline SSG

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2016, 11:10:49 AM »
Zero, he's a fast guy who's shown next to no NFL potential as a NFL WR.  His hands and route running is as bad as you'll see from a WR on an active roster.  He is nothing more than an ok kick returner and a great gunner.  I don't expect that to change as he's looked down right awful when he's been on the field for the offense.  I think Rodgers would prefer to throw the ball to a more reliable target not aguy who's dropped just as many targets as he's caught.

Now isn't the time to throw a special teamer on the field hoping for something that we've yet to see this year.
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Offline jameslofton

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2016, 11:33:27 AM »


Plus the quick slant across the middle and the stop and go fly route.



His preseason success was largely do to the slat across the middle and then outrunning coverage to the end zone. But I'm thinking with the way defenses are playing us and clogging the middle (because we don't throw deep) it makes the slant across the middle a risky throw.

But I agree that is my favorite Jeff Janis play.

Offline Shinesman

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2016, 11:36:07 AM »
...I've kind of wondered why they've only run him deep and outside.  ..
Because he is terrible at running routes.

A guy terrible at running routes can still:
1.  WR screen is no route at all, so no route-running.
2.  A straight deep fly pattern is no route at all.  A terrible route-runner can do that. 
3.  A straight slant, start on the right side and just run as fast as you can across the field also takes no route-running skill. 

We all get that he's bad at running routes.  The discussion is whether there are a couple of usages where his size/speed and his power/speed potential, with the ball in his hands, could make him useful despite being a terrible route runner. 

Not even the most "let's-use-Janis" advocates have suggested he should be an every-down guy or a guy who's expected to play even a third of the full playbook.

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Offline eX Oh

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2016, 11:46:44 AM »
Its not just that he can't run routes.  His body control is null.  His techniques are null. 

He is a guy that can run fast in a straight line, but I wouldn't throw him the ball.  The only route I would trust him to run is a drag route, but if he's man-covered I wouldn't even do that. 

Offline jameslofton

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2016, 01:59:01 PM »
FYI this year he has two catches for the whole season and averages 39.5 yards per catch.  cheese)

Offline golfman

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2016, 02:32:47 PM »
The WR screen would (I think) require no route running either.  Hike and instantly throw it to him on line of scrimmage, and let him make a play from there.  Point about scramble-drill is well taken.

They have run WR screens with him in the game, but he was in there because of his blocking ability. Not his catch and run ability. I'm down for giving it a go though.
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Offline VoiceofReason

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2016, 03:03:06 PM »
I don't want them designing plays specifically to get Jeff Janis the ball.  Jerry Rice?  Sure.  Sterling Sharpe?  Yea.  Not Jeff Janis. 

Also, it doesn't work to say "well, Janis is capable of running this route or that, so you can use him that way."  No you can't.  Every play can change once you get out of the huddle.  It can change again if defense is man or zone.  Your route changes depends on how the defender plays you.

You simply can't have an offensive scheme based on what Janis can and can not do.  Now, if you want to just have him out there to spread the field sometimes in 4 or 5 WR sets, I'm down with that.  Heck, he could even get open and catch a pass in the process. 

Offline The GM

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2016, 05:45:51 PM »
I don't want them designing plays specifically to get Jeff Janis the ball.  Jerry Rice?  Sure.  Sterling Sharpe?  Yea.  Not Jeff Janis. 

Also, it doesn't work to say "well, Janis is capable of running this route or that, so you can use him that way."  No you can't.  Every play can change once you get out of the huddle.  It can change again if defense is man or zone.  Your route changes depends on how the defender plays you.

You simply can't have an offensive scheme based on what Janis can and can not do.  Now, if you want to just have him out there to spread the field sometimes in 4 or 5 WR sets, I'm down with that.  Heck, he could even get open and catch a pass in the process.

Agree,  what I might do is get him out there early with a fly or post to get the defense off the line.  You hit on a couple of those and it opens up the shorter routes for the guys who can run those patterns.  Im not sure we can win without a over the top threat even if its a decoy.

Offline cheech

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2016, 07:00:50 PM »
FWIW Janis played a few snaps (4?) vs. Washington.  Washington split time the entire game between man and zone coverage.  When the Pack broke the huddle it looked like Washington was in man but then backed off once Janis split out wide.  There isn't a team in the league that doesn't recognize his speed.  He might not catch a ball but he could still impact the game in ways most fans won't recognize.  Getting a team out of man coverage is one of those ways. 

If you heard the Packers DB's talk about D. Jackson before and after the game you'll have heard one thing.  You have to respect the speed.  No, Janis can't run routes as well as Jackson.  No Janis doesn't even have Jackson's hands.  You still have to respect his speed. 

I guarantee every team the Packers will play have put on tape of the Packers special teams and have seen Jeff Janis run by every cover corner that lines up across from him.  If those gunner plays on ST's have proven anything its that he can beat press man coverage and run by a corner with ease.  Those aren't easy plays as a gunner, either.  Those corners are allowed to push and hold the entire way down the field.  Janis still gets 4 yards behind them. 

Think about it.  If he were on the Cardinal's roster how would you have our defense play him?  Would you dare play bump and run without safety help?  Or would you back off, play zone, and make sure safety help is available over the top?  I would do the latter of the two.  I would make him prove that he can find the soft spots in a zone.  The problem is you would need to do that across the board, giving Cobb, Jones, and Abbrederis a free release - something our receivers desperately need in order to get open. 

 (Side note: If you watch the secondary when Cobb is in the backfield this has the same effect.  Defenses back off of bump and run because they don't want their CB's turning and running with the WR.  Cobb could easily run a wheel route in their wake and burn them for 10 easy yards.  They have to play zone where their eyes can stay on Cobb and pick him up if he does run to the flat.  It's no wonder our passing game starts to click when Cobb is in the backfield.  That free release was key for guys like Adams, R. Rodgers, and J. Jones.) 

For 5 years we heard MM say that our running game didn't need to be productive.  He said that it just needed to be a threat.  He consistently talked about the number of runs that his offense produced in a game.  Remember?  The dark ages between Ryan Grant and Eddie Lacy?

I don't think our deep passing game is any different.  It doesn't need to be productive.  It just needs to be a threat. 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 07:11:27 PM by cheech »
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Online B

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2016, 10:36:22 PM »
cheech is right on much of this... including deconstructing this nonsense idea that Jeff Janis only is a straight line speed guy.

Player Name ----- 20 yd. shuttle --- 3 cone
Jeffry Janis -----  --- 3.98 ------ 6.64
T. Montgomery - --- 4.21 ------ 6.97
Dav. Adams ---- --- 4.30 ------ 6.82
Randall Cobb ---  --- 4.34 ------ 7.08
Jordy Nelson --- --- 4.35 ------- 7.03

Jeff's issues are being raw and undisciplined, coming out of a college program that lacked quality coaching and not facing competition that challenged him to grow and develop. What he is not lacking is athleticism. He is an elite athlete.

His 20/225 reps was 4th best of all WR's in 2014 and would have placed 4th best in 2015 as well and,
Jeff's 3.98 in the 20 yard shuttle was 5th best in 2014 and would have tied Amari Cooper for the best of all WR's in 2015.

I don't have high expectations of him against Arizona, but what he has shown us is when he does get the ball in his hands he is dynamic and makes things happen.

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Offline cpk1994

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2016, 03:05:31 AM »
I don't have high expectations of him against Arizona, but what he has shown us is when he does get the ball in his hands he is dynamic and makes things happen.
But that is on ST. Al he has to do there is run. He doesn't need to be real disciplined. That is nowhere near all he has to do as a WR. The fact is he has played over 70 snaps at WR and has done nothing. He hasn't made anything happen. That is because he is terrible at running routes, has no instincts or technique. That isn't going to change magically on Saturday.
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Online B

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2016, 05:04:47 AM »
I don't have high expectations of him against Arizona, but what he has shown us is when he does get the ball in his hands he is dynamic and makes things happen.
But that is on ST. Al he has to do there is run. He doesn't need to be real disciplined. That is nowhere near all he has to do as a WR. The fact is he has played over 70 snaps at WR and has done nothing. He hasn't made anything happen. That is because he is terrible at running routes, has no instincts or technique. That isn't going to change magically on Saturday.

I stated that I do not have high expectations for Saturday night, in fact you quote them. Though you are wrong, his instincts are fine - see his return ability, and the fact that he has shown himself to be a touchdown machine in preseason with the ball in his hands.

Where you are correct is his lack of technique and discipline. Ironically, it is not from lack of effort (he works and practices hard) it is simply never having gotten good coaching in high school or college and lack of experience. The combination of weak coaching and his rare athletic ability that allowed him to dominate lesser athletes without having to develop his skills works against him.

Once a season starts reserves like Jeff receive very limited reps and opportunities required to sharpen route running and getting on script with the team's offense and quarterback.

In contrast, Jared Abbrederis honed his football IQ as an first-team all-state quarterback and three year starter and then honed his WR skills with solid coaching and experience playing in a BIG time Big 10 program against top notch competition.

Thus, Jeff has a much steeper learning curve.

Saying the guy has no instinct or that he only has straight line speed is nonsense and misses the very real challenges he faces in becoming a solid NFL WR and utilizing his rare physical ability.
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They just ran out of time.
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Offline The GM

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2016, 08:00:23 AM »


Plus the quick slant across the middle and the stop and go fly route.



His preseason success was largely do to the slat across the middle and then outrunning coverage to the end zone. But I'm thinking with the way defenses are playing us and clogging the middle (because we don't throw deep) it makes the slant across the middle a risky throw.

But I agree that is my favorite Jeff Janis play.

Janis has problems getting in and out of cuts.  Its not a smooth transition for him.  Guys like Greg Jenning made a living off of being able to cut on a dime, Janis is bigger and his build requires him to be slower in that transition process. Its something you can work on but its not going to improve dramatically.  You also must remember the amount of talent above him on the depth chart.  He wont be seeing the practice reps like the others.  Fortunately, he has found his niche as a gunner but I dont see him being a every day WR in this offense .  There can be days where he could go off with a few long catches and YAC in the right matchups, but he's not going to win the cutting routes on a consistent basis at this level. 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 09:11:11 AM by The GM »

Offline Pugger

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2016, 09:04:38 AM »
I don't have high expectations of him against Arizona, but what he has shown us is when he does get the ball in his hands he is dynamic and makes things happen.
But that is on ST. Al he has to do there is run. He doesn't need to be real disciplined. That is nowhere near all he has to do as a WR. The fact is he has played over 70 snaps at WR and has done nothing. He hasn't made anything happen. That is because he is terrible at running routes, has no instincts or technique. That isn't going to change magically on Saturday.

No, but if he is out there defenses have to respect his speed just in case he does get it.  With our WR corps depleted so we don't have a lot of options, do we?

Online Hands

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Re: How many catches will Jeff Janis get?
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2016, 09:19:19 AM »
I could see some jet sweeps or a comeback route on a 2-3 yard throw and see what he can do with his ability. Otherwise, doubt he gets a look unless Rodgers is on the run and sees a friendly jersey.
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