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Author Topic: Will TT/MM change?  (Read 4941 times)

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Offline VoiceofReason

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Will TT/MM change?
« on: January 18, 2016, 04:29:19 PM »
Oh man, here we go.  VOR is coming back in talking about firing MM and TT.  Well, not so fast.  I've given myself a couple days to calm down, and try to address this with my mind instead of my heart.  I remember saying at halftime, win or lose I am proud of this team.  What transpired after that tainted that opinion some, but nevertheless, I am still proud.

As I've thought about it, and talked to lots of people, I am temporarily abandoning my call for the heads of TT and MM.  Partly because it will never happen, so what's the point.  But also partly because I think there will be pressure from the BOD to change. I want to believe the "powers that be" at 1265 have to realize AR doesn't have many prime years left.  Maybe, just maybe there will be a little more sense of urgency.

This is a very good football time, moreso when healthy.  They don't need 17 huge changes to win another SB.  With that said, they absolutely, positively have to do the following things, no excuses.  (Also, in no particular order of importance):

1) Cut Matsay.  Now.  No camp competition, just move on.  He is a bad punter and was kept because he was the holder.  Bring in a couple legit punters, and make a decision early so he has time to work with the FG unit and everyone is comfortable long before the season starts.

2) Find a TE.  I don't care if it's through the draft, FA, trade, or they find a way to clone Gonzalez.  Just get one.  This offense sorely needs a threat.  Doesn't need to be a Pro-Bowler, just someone who can be a legit threat.  Put him alongside a healthy WR group and it will make a world of difference.   I've even heard an interesting idea of signing Calvin Johnson and converting him to TE.  (Or a WR/TE hybrid type of player.) Probably too expensive, but interesting.

3) Find a 3 down ILB. Barrington will be back, and that will help.  But you don't want him in coverage anymore than you want Jake Ryan doing that.  Having a player like that allows Matthews to go back to OLB, and hopefully won't be needed in coverage often, if at all.

4) Find a RB.  I'm sorry, but Lacy is just too fat.  All too often he is more plodding than punishing.  He needs to come into camp lean and mean.  If he comes back in the same shape he is now, cut him.  Send a message to the team there's a sense of urgency around there, and it's unacceptable.  Assuming Lacy IS in better shape, they still need a RB.  Not a scat back!  But yes, someone who does have more speed, who can get to the corner, catch some passes.  But he also needs to protect AR, so he's got to be a complete back.  Fortunately, this is one position not very hard to find.  Many teams have 3 guys like that. 

5) Focus on closing out games.  Emphasis from day one needs to be on closing out games.  MM needs to reflect on this himself, and Capers needs get this message across.  Defense played great for 2 1/2 quarters, then allowed 3 TDs.  And AZ didn't have great field position to start any of those drives.  Last year in Seattle, yea, a back-up TE made a bone-headed play on ST.  True, but lost in the shuffle was a complete meltdown by the defense at the end of the 4th quarter, and again in OT.

6) Don't waste TOs  MM needs to study game management, and realize you'd rather have a delay of game penalty early in the half, rather than blow a TO.  You don't challenge a 50/50 call on play that isn't game-changing.  You lose both a challenge AND the TO.  Don't let emotions drive your red flag throwing. 

7) Self reflection. Time to honestly look at the offense and defense from top to bottom.  Bring in outsiders to look at film, instead of relying on your own self-scouting exclusively.  Everything from tempo, how to get plays in, use of audibles, personnel groups, new plays, etc. on offense.  On defense, same deal.  Above all else on defense, work on blitzing different players from different places.  Work on timing!  At times, it looked much better this year, but still far too many times it wasn't disguised or executed very well.

Do those things, and this team will have a much better shot at winning at least one more SB before AR moves on down the road.

Offline VoiceofReason

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2016, 06:58:52 PM »
Too funny. MM just addressed #3 and #4 above. He would surely be banished to the yell and scream board after that press conf!

Offline maxman44

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2016, 07:29:48 PM »
Dang...that's a good list...I agree

Offline LMG

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2016, 07:56:50 PM »
Dang...that's a good list...I agree

Agree....good list with most points already being discussed in other threads.
If you are not the lead dog the view never changes.

Offline claymaker

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2016, 09:37:57 PM »
I think the question is what will be changed. They've changed something every year.

Calvin Johnson at TE? Just no. He's one of the most prolific WRs to ever play the game. He will never be used as a TE. Slot WR and occasional inline blocker? Yea, but never a true TE. Odds are he probably goes on the market with his humongous cap number and new regime in Detroit. I still love the idea of him being a Green Bay Packer and would back signing him 100%.

Your #5 and #6 points are well noted, but you can only do so much and overcome adversity with limited experience. The Packers ask a lot of their perimeter guys, and the lack of experience+playmakers showed this year. The fact that they were able to only have 2 games where they had no chance of winning the entire year is a feat in itself.

#7 is done every offseason. It doesn't make sense to make it a point of emphasis when it's already the biggest focus of the coaching staff in the offseason. Your coaches know their personnel and playbook better than any outsider. Self scouting is the best way to recognize strong and weak points, and they always bring in outside opinion/analysis's as well. 

Offline ThatGuy284

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2016, 11:20:17 AM »
I want to believe the "powers that be" at 1265 have to realize AR doesn't have many prime years left.  Maybe, just maybe there will be a little more sense of urgency.

Peyton Manning: 03/24/1976   Will be 40 in March

Tom Brady: 08/03/1977  38 years old

Carson Palmer: 12/27/1979  Just turned 36 in December

Ben Roethlisberger 03/02/1982  Will turn 35 in March

Aaron Rodgers 12/02/1983 Just turned 32

So all four of the remaining teams are QB'ed by players older/significantly older than Rodgers.   I've been reading about Rodger's "prime years" being wasted for about 4 years now.  Can this narrative please stop? 

________________________________

Having said that I agree with 2, 3, 4

Offline claymaker

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2016, 11:26:12 AM »
I want to believe the "powers that be" at 1265 have to realize AR doesn't have many prime years left.  Maybe, just maybe there will be a little more sense of urgency.

Peyton Manning: 03/24/1976   Will be 40 in March

Tom Brady: 08/03/1977  38 years old

Carson Palmer: 12/27/1979  Just turned 36 in December

Ben Roethlisberger 03/02/1982  Will turn 35 in March

Aaron Rodgers 12/02/1983 Just turned 32

So all four of the remaining teams are QB'ed by players older/significantly older than Rodgers.   I've been reading about Rodger's "prime years" being wasted for about 4 years now.  Can this narrative please stop? 

Agreed. His prime years are around as long as he is.

Offline VoiceofReason

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2016, 11:49:35 AM »
I'm sorry, but I don't agree.   His prime years are around as long as he is? I don't think you really believe that.  Nobody would claim Manning is playing at the same level as he did in his prime.  (Either Manning really.)  Big Ben has no mobility left and is suffering the consequences. 

But beyond that, there are exceptions to everything.  In general, a QB 35+ isn't seen by anyone around the league as in their prime.  And not a one of us knows what kind of QB AR will be at that age.  Something could happen to his arm or his wheels the next couple years, we have no idea. 

It's certainly possible for AR to be just as good when he's 36, 37 years old.  I just wouldn't want to bet the house on it...

Offline claymaker

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2016, 12:19:34 PM »
I'm sorry, but I don't agree.   His prime years are around as long as he is? I don't think you really believe that.  Nobody would claim Manning is playing at the same level as he did in his prime.  (Either Manning really.)  Big Ben has no mobility left and is suffering the consequences. 

But beyond that, there are exceptions to everything.  In general, a QB 35+ isn't seen by anyone around the league as in their prime.  And not a one of us knows what kind of QB AR will be at that age.  Something could happen to his arm or his wheels the next couple years, we have no idea. 

It's certainly possible for AR to be just as good when he's 36, 37 years old.  I just wouldn't want to bet the house on it...

Yea? Tell that to Tom Brady. Identify Brady's prime years: In 2011 at the age of 33/34 he threw for 5200 yards and attempted 611 passes on the year. He had only thrown 600+ passes once during his younger years, 2002, and only once did he throw for more than 4500 yards, 2007. 4 out of his last 5 seasons he has attempted more than 600 passes. Would I be accurate in saying his prime years are not nearly as good as his supposed "old dog" years? I believe I would.

Rodgers will always be more mobile than any QB on that list. He'll be a couple steps ahead of Favre's mobility in his late years. He's got the best arm out of all of them. Rodgers is not your "general" run of the mill QB, don't put him in that category. It's true we have no idea what could happen with injuries, but I know what kind of QB he will be. He'll be the best QB in the league until he hangs up his cleats or Andrew Luck makes a big jump, and he'll need at least two Superbowls to do it.

Offline ThatGuy284

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2016, 12:47:15 PM »
Speaking of Favre - one of his best statistical seasons was at the end of his career - when he took Minny to the NFC Championship.

Drew Brees: 01/15/1979 Just turned 37 years old.  Anyone truly be shocked if he put up top-of-league numbers over the next couple seasons

Even 'ol Matt Hasselbeck at 40 kept the Colts in contention - then again his "prime" was never then same threshold as the others mentioned

http://sportige.com/2015-nfl-season-oldest-quarterbacks-83489/
Tony Romo will be 36 in April
Born on April 21, 1980, Romo is the one of two quarterbacks on this list to come from nowhere and “steal” Drew Bledsoe a starting job. He’s been the Cowboys’ starting QB since 2006, and was good enough to have some people consider him the MVP in 2014. He led the league in completion percentage (69.9%), touchdown percentage (7.8%), yards per attempt (8.5), passer rating (113.2) and QBR (82.75). He’s a four-time Pro Bowler

Philip Rivers is 34

Eli Manning 35

Ryan Fitzpatrick is 33 and coming off one of his best seasons - probably his best season - and isn't in the stratosphere of the others named.

Approx 1/3rd of the NFL starting QB's are older than Rodgers right now - would it truly shock anyone if any of these guys won a Super Bowl over the next couple seasons?  (McCown would certainly be shocking).  That's certainly trending beyond an "exception"

Offline VoiceofReason

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2016, 03:16:35 PM »
Half those guys you mentioned are still in their prime years.  And you have shifted the debate.  I don't disagree it's possible for a QB to produce at a high level beyond their prime years.  That doesn't change the fact NFL players do have "prime years."  What age is that?  Who knows.  It's fluid, and definitely getting older.   

I grant you all that.  But it still comes down to this.  Every year Rodgers plays, chances increase he suffers a serious injury. That's just math.  Lots of great QBs over the years could have played until they're 40 if they didn't suffer an arm, leg, or head injury.  And, as I'm finding out, it gets tougher to come back from those the older you get.   

Somehow the debate has shifted to "Rodgers only has a few years left in his career."  Just to be clear, that's not my position at all. 

Online golfman

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2016, 09:15:19 PM »
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Online B

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2016, 11:34:46 PM »
Based on this article McCarthy won't be changing anything.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mccarthy-lack-big-target-part-packers-woes-212647395--nfl.html

Where does Mike say or hint at that any where in the article? He just fired two position coaches and threw down the gauntlet to a good number of players: R. Rodgers, Eddie Lacy, Davonte Adams, Jeff Janis... and he is in the early stages of his annual evaluation process.

I'm confused by your post brother ???
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 11:36:15 PM by B »
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Online golfman

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2016, 05:44:38 AM »
Based on this article McCarthy won't be changing anything.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mccarthy-lack-big-target-part-packers-woes-212647395--nfl.html

Where does Mike say or hint at that any where in the article? He just fired two position coaches and threw down the gauntlet to a good number of players: R. Rodgers, Eddie Lacy, Davonte Adams, Jeff Janis... and he is in the early stages of his annual evaluation process.

I'm confused by your post brother ???

Read these paragraph's. He's blaming things on the loss of Jordy Nelson which if you read between the lines he's saying caused a deficiency in talent.

''I've said this for a long time, everyone wants to talk about passing game, speed of receivers,'' McCarthy said. ''Philosophically to me ... to have a successful passing game you have to have big targets that can turn through the middle of the field, whether it's a tight end, whether it's a big receiver.''

It's what made the versatile Nelson so valuable for the Packers. The 6-foot-3 veteran could get open for deep passes, or line up in the slot to make catches. The presence of Nelson helped make Randall Cobb better, and vice versa.

''You look at the production of Jordy when he went inside ... now you're dictating to the defense what coverage they can play to you. When you don't have that element or the element to complement that, you see what we saw this year,'' McCarthy said.
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Online B

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Re: Will TT/MM change?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2016, 06:34:04 AM »
Based on this article McCarthy won't be changing anything.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mccarthy-lack-big-target-part-packers-woes-212647395--nfl.html

Where does Mike say or hint at that any where in the article? He just fired two position coaches and threw down the gauntlet to a good number of players: R. Rodgers, Eddie Lacy, Davonte Adams, Jeff Janis... and he is in the early stages of his annual evaluation process.

I'm confused by your post brother ???

Read these paragraph's. He's blaming things on the loss of Jordy Nelson which if you read between the lines he's saying caused a deficiency in talent.

''I've said this for a long time, everyone wants to talk about passing game, speed of receivers,'' McCarthy said. ''Philosophically to me ... to have a successful passing game you have to have big targets that can turn through the middle of the field, whether it's a tight end, whether it's a big receiver.''

It's what made the versatile Nelson so valuable for the Packers. The 6-foot-3 veteran could get open for deep passes, or line up in the slot to make catches. The presence of Nelson helped make Randall Cobb better, and vice versa.

''You look at the production of Jordy when he went inside ... now you're dictating to the defense what coverage they can play to you. When you don't have that element or the element to complement that, you see what we saw this year,'' McCarthy said.


I don't think so... rather, I think he is stating the obvious. The Packers didn't have a TE to challenge the middle of the field, and the young wide receivers failed to fill Jordy's sizable shoes. I hear no excuses in what Mike said, and I certainly see no evidence of him indicating there will be no change.

This is an article that prefaced what you quote with:

"Jordy Nelson's absence wasn't the only problem. Rodgers didn't play up to his typical, two-time NFL MVP standards. Injuries battered the offensive line. The running game wasn't consistent.

McCarthy also saw a hole up the middle..."


In the days (4) since losing in the desert he has fired the TE and running back coaches, issued challenges to multiple players and just begun his extensive evaluation process.

I think you're trying to hard to see things between the lines and perhaps “cannot see the forest for the trees” after the sudden and bitter loss in overtime to end another season and another run at #14...
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 07:15:30 AM by B »
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi