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Author Topic: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself  (Read 8460 times)

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Offline ricky

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2016, 12:10:39 PM »
B, on Friday's "Green and Gold", Wilde addressed the question of whether or not MM is frustrated by TT's lack of adding talent during the season, or dipping into FA at least a bit to address some needs on the team. Wilde started out as somewhat skeptical, but from talking to several people on the Packers, decided that, indeed, there was some unhappiness with TT and his unwillingness to explore options off the roster.

As far as MM simply resigning because he is that angry, that is an overreaction. Instead, perhaps MM could talk with TT, express his frustration (IF it actually exists- its all "anonymice" at this point), and the two could come to some accommodation. Like two people on this board discussing a topic, and hopefully finding a middle ground. If not, then MM would have consider his options. But, somehow, I don't believe quitting is in his nature.
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Offline VoiceofReason

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2016, 02:08:42 PM »
B, on Friday's "Green and Gold", Wilde addressed the question of whether or not MM is frustrated by TT's lack of adding talent during the season, or dipping into FA at least a bit to address some needs on the team. Wilde started out as somewhat skeptical, but from talking to several people on the Packers, decided that, indeed, there was some unhappiness with TT and his unwillingness to explore options off the roster.

Wait, now I'm confused.  Is cpk wrong?  Or is Jason Wilde a hack also?

Offline Leader

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2016, 02:25:51 PM »
Wait, now I'm confused.....

Finally you've said something I can agree with......Doh!   :)

Offline VoiceofReason

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2016, 02:41:57 PM »
Wait, now I'm confused.....

Finally you've said something I can agree with......Doh!   :)

Haha, c'mon there have been other times!   

Offline Leader

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2016, 02:45:32 PM »
Wait, now I'm confused.....

Finally you've said something I can agree with......Doh!   :)

Haha, c'mon there have been other times!   

Perhaps....but you'd tee'd that one up too easy to bypass!

Offline The GM

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2016, 04:55:05 PM »
Good article by the Hall of famer Bob McGinn.    Thompson needs to realise whats going on around him and use all of his GM tools by using trades and the FA market in addition to the draft.    He can sit in his bubble and think his draft and develop system is great, but it's produced one planets aligned Super Bowl in 10 years as a sixth seed in 2011.  Take a look around the NFC:

Carolina was 15-1 and gets Kelvin Benjamin back next year.
Arizona gets the Honey Badger back next year
Seattle will be tough with Graham and Rawls back
We lost to all our division rivals at home.
We lost the division to Minnesota

On our team, we have needs at TE, ILB, RB and possibly others depending on our FA losses.
If Starks leaves, are we really going to place our entire running game on Lacy's offseason plan?
What if Nelson gets hurt again?  Are we going to pretend the rest of these guys can get separation?
Crosby is a free agent, one of the few bright spots this year.

We have lots of holes to fill, and picking 27th isnt going to get it done.  Thompson needs to get some experience in here to sprinkle among the vets and draft choices.  Thompson is a good evaluator, but as long as he continues to rely so heavily on the draft, even if you hit on most of your picks, you can see the post season results he's gotten.  I understand MM's and the staffs frustration.  If you are constantly focusing on 3-4 years down the road with young players, you dont see opportunities directly in front of you.         


   



   

Online B

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2016, 07:11:58 PM »
Some pretty dramatic distance between some unhappiness and fed up...
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline Pugger

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2016, 07:29:23 PM »
Any time the language starts with BLAME I immediately know that the article lacks credibility.

Responsibility and accountability are important, but blame is a lazy persons way of skipping over real evaluation IMO

B, the author of an article doesn't write the headline. That job goes to the copy editors.

Now, I've read the article, and McGinn makes some very strong points.

1. The offense imploded, and there were no answers.
2. Ranking 31st on first downs, 28th on third downs and 25th overall? With Rodgers at QB? Totally unacceptable.
3. Why did MM give up playcalling duties? As McGinn asks, did he really need to oversee Zook on ST or Capers on D? And how much of the lack of rhythm/creativity in the offense can be blamed on Clements lack of play calling ability? And for those who want to blame the WR's
4. As McGinn points out, Adams was having a terrible year. Yet, he was kept on the field. Why not try Abbredaris or Janis? Many on here were asking exactly the same question.
5. Why did it take so long for Jake Ryan to see the field? Again, this subject, with either Ryan or Thomas playing more regularly was questioned.
6. Are MM and TT too set in their ways? VOR asked exactly that question in this same R&V section. He asked some challenging and interesting questions, and has sparked a spirited and interesting debate. McGinn asks the same questions, and backs up his queries with specific facts.
7. The continued use of Barclay on the OL was a disaster. He showed he couldn't competently play tackle last year. So, he is put on the field at LT to replace Bakhtiari? Did this make any sense to anyone? Granted, we, nor McGinn is at every practice or spends a lot of time with the players, but what made the coaching staff believe this was a good idea, when it was apparent it was a terrible idea.

I found McGinn's comparison of the Packers and Atlanta Braves both apt and frightening. Always the bridesmaid (or at least in the wedding party), never the bride. The past two seasons, the Packers found a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. In Seattle, it was a total meltdown in the final four minutes. Against the Cardinals, the team just didn't have that "killer instinct' to put the game away in the fourth quarter.

So what is the answer? McGinn for the second time has pointed a finger TT and his unwillingness to address team weaknesses outside the confines of the team. As noted, draft and develop is an excellent way to build a winner, but some flexibility in thinking would be welcome. TT used to do this, bringing in mid-level FA's to try to address specific needs. Sometimes they worked, sometimes not. But, with the window of opportunity closing on Rodgers' best years, some small changes should at least be considered if this team is going to hoist the Lombardi again in the AR era.

First, let me start by saying it is not me who rails on McGinn - that honor goes to cpk, so perhaps your comments should be directed to him. I have read him for years and still do, but always with a grain of salt on his sources and his football judgement. He is however a decent writer and occasionally works hard at his craft.

I'm on St Thomas, so I am not going to waste time answering your list, but instead will speak to a place that he does draw my wrath - Bob Mcginn is being used as a source for the following by Florio and others:

 Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel drops this bombshell near the bottom of a postmortem on Green Bay’s season: “According to several sources, McCarthy is fed up with his boss’ unwillingness to take a chance and reinforce the roster with veteran players that might be unknown to the Packers but have the talent to contribute.”


So we should assume that Mike will be turning in his resignation any moment right? These unnamed sources aren't saying Mike McCarthy is expressing frustration, they are asserting that he is running around saying he is "fed up." If indeed this is true he needs to quit or be fired. Coming to your boss and expressing frustration is welcomed in the business - mouthing off and slandering them behind there back is cowardly and undermining.

I think it is once again Bob McGinn is making crap up - and is doing so in a reckless way that affects peoples lives.

This allegation does not in any way reflect Mike McCarthy's MO in any way, shape. or form.

But you can count on Bob to hide behind protecting his anonymous sources - though my guess is they about as credible as Joe Arrigo ::)

I'm with you.  I just can't imagine McCarthy running around the offices at 1265 bitching about Thompson in front of others.  I suspect Mike (and no doubt other coaches) is showing his frustrations and disappointment in this season and McGinn is jumping to conclusions big time.

Offline The GM

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2016, 08:00:23 PM »
Any time the language starts with BLAME I immediately know that the article lacks credibility.

Responsibility and accountability are important, but blame is a lazy persons way of skipping over real evaluation IMO

B, the author of an article doesn't write the headline. That job goes to the copy editors.

Now, I've read the article, and McGinn makes some very strong points.

1. The offense imploded, and there were no answers.
2. Ranking 31st on first downs, 28th on third downs and 25th overall? With Rodgers at QB? Totally unacceptable.
3. Why did MM give up playcalling duties? As McGinn asks, did he really need to oversee Zook on ST or Capers on D? And how much of the lack of rhythm/creativity in the offense can be blamed on Clements lack of play calling ability? And for those who want to blame the WR's
4. As McGinn points out, Adams was having a terrible year. Yet, he was kept on the field. Why not try Abbredaris or Janis? Many on here were asking exactly the same question.
5. Why did it take so long for Jake Ryan to see the field? Again, this subject, with either Ryan or Thomas playing more regularly was questioned.
6. Are MM and TT too set in their ways? VOR asked exactly that question in this same R&V section. He asked some challenging and interesting questions, and has sparked a spirited and interesting debate. McGinn asks the same questions, and backs up his queries with specific facts.
7. The continued use of Barclay on the OL was a disaster. He showed he couldn't competently play tackle last year. So, he is put on the field at LT to replace Bakhtiari? Did this make any sense to anyone? Granted, we, nor McGinn is at every practice or spends a lot of time with the players, but what made the coaching staff believe this was a good idea, when it was apparent it was a terrible idea.

I found McGinn's comparison of the Packers and Atlanta Braves both apt and frightening. Always the bridesmaid (or at least in the wedding party), never the bride. The past two seasons, the Packers found a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. In Seattle, it was a total meltdown in the final four minutes. Against the Cardinals, the team just didn't have that "killer instinct' to put the game away in the fourth quarter.

So what is the answer? McGinn for the second time has pointed a finger TT and his unwillingness to address team weaknesses outside the confines of the team. As noted, draft and develop is an excellent way to build a winner, but some flexibility in thinking would be welcome. TT used to do this, bringing in mid-level FA's to try to address specific needs. Sometimes they worked, sometimes not. But, with the window of opportunity closing on Rodgers' best years, some small changes should at least be considered if this team is going to hoist the Lombardi again in the AR era.

First, let me start by saying it is not me who rails on McGinn - that honor goes to cpk, so perhaps your comments should be directed to him. I have read him for years and still do, but always with a grain of salt on his sources and his football judgement. He is however a decent writer and occasionally works hard at his craft.

I'm on St Thomas, so I am not going to waste time answering your list, but instead will speak to a place that he does draw my wrath - Bob Mcginn is being used as a source for the following by Florio and others:

 Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel drops this bombshell near the bottom of a postmortem on Green Bay’s season: “According to several sources, McCarthy is fed up with his boss’ unwillingness to take a chance and reinforce the roster with veteran players that might be unknown to the Packers but have the talent to contribute.”


So we should assume that Mike will be turning in his resignation any moment right? These unnamed sources aren't saying Mike McCarthy is expressing frustration, they are asserting that he is running around saying he is "fed up." If indeed this is true he needs to quit or be fired. Coming to your boss and expressing frustration is welcomed in the business - mouthing off and slandering them behind there back is cowardly and undermining.

I think it is once again Bob McGinn is making crap up - and is doing so in a reckless way that affects peoples lives.

This allegation does not in any way reflect Mike McCarthy's MO in any way, shape. or form.

But you can count on Bob to hide behind protecting his anonymous sources - though my guess is they about as credible as Joe Arrigo ::)

I'm with you.  I just can't imagine McCarthy running around the offices at 1265 bitching about Thompson in front of others.  I suspect Mike (and no doubt other coaches) is showing his frustrations and disappointment in this season and McGinn is jumping to conclusions big time.

I dont think he's running around 1265 either, but I can easily see how McCarthy would be frustrated.  You dont think McCarthy talks with his coaches on personnel.  I would hope so.  Why is it such a stretch that it would leak out?  McCarthy has seen this movie several times now.  IMO McCarthy is doing pretty good with what hes got, and that's with a GM that doesnt use all the tools in his toolbox.

Offline Bud

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2016, 08:02:39 PM »
Good article by the Hall of famer Bob McGinn.    Thompson needs to realise whats going on around him and use all of his GM tools by using trades and the FA market in addition to the draft.    He can sit in his bubble and think his draft and develop system is great, but it's produced one planets aligned Super Bowl in 10 years as a sixth seed in 2011.  Take a look around the NFC:

Carolina was 15-1 and gets Kelvin Benjamin back next year.
Arizona gets the Honey Badger back next year
Seattle will be tough with Graham and Rawls back
We lost to all our division rivals at home.
We lost the division to Minnesota

On our team, we have needs at TE, ILB, RB and possibly others depending on our FA losses.
If Starks leaves, are we really going to place our entire running game on Lacy's offseason plan?
What if Nelson gets hurt again?  Are we going to pretend the rest of these guys can get separation?
Crosby is a free agent, one of the few bright spots this year.

We have lots of holes to fill, and picking 27th isnt going to get it done.  Thompson needs to get some experience in here to sprinkle among the vets and draft choices.  Thompson is a good evaluator, but as long as he continues to rely so heavily on the draft, even if you hit on most of your picks, you can see the post season results he's gotten.  I understand MM's and the staffs frustration.  If you are constantly focusing on 3-4 years down the road with young players, you dont see opportunities directly in front of you.   
   

Interesting perspective GM. There are definitely some issues to be worked out. I'm hoping, just like everyone else, that the Pack can get it done. This year was frustrating. Hoping next year things come together and another SB run can be had.
“Gold medals aren't really made of gold. They're made of sweat, determination, and a hard-to-find alloy called guts.” ~ Dan Gable

Offline ricky

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2016, 07:16:28 AM »
Some pretty dramatic distance between some unhappiness and fed up...

Its a matter of perspective. Parsing words. Apparently MM is not happy with TT. How unhappy? Pick your word. Fed up? I'll agree on that one, if it matters. Because two defeats snatched from the jaws of victory the last two years could definitely cause someone to be "fed up". The question goes back to what to do about these feelings. You suggested MM resigning. I suggested a summit between TT and MM. We'll see what these two decide to do.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline VoiceofReason

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2016, 07:55:28 AM »
Some pretty dramatic distance between some unhappiness and fed up...

Its a matter of perspective. Parsing words. Apparently MM is not happy with TT. How unhappy? Pick your word. Fed up? I'll agree on that one, if it matters. Because two defeats snatched from the jaws of victory the last two years could definitely cause someone to be "fed up". The question goes back to what to do about these feelings. You suggested MM resigning. I suggested a summit between TT and MM. We'll see what these two decide to do.

Thing is, don't you think MM/TT have had these summits already?  As others have said, MM isn't the kind of guy who's going to complain about it behind TT's back.  They have meetings all the time, and I would bet this has been discussed before. 

I don't see TT changing his approach, so the only way things change is if Elliott Wolf, MM, Rodgers, Matthews, etc. form a mutiny.  I don't see that happening either, at least not blatantly.  But if the BOD hears enough complaints internally, maybe a change is made.

All I know is this is not NOTHING.  Could be a minor issue, or could be MM and others are more frustrated than we think. 


Offline LMG

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2016, 09:22:27 AM »
Wonder if TT is frustrated with all the player injuries THEY bring to the roster?

The THEY includes MM who is certainly involved in selecting players.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 09:23:44 AM by LMG »
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Offline The GM

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2016, 11:50:26 AM »
Wonder if TT is frustrated with all the player injuries THEY bring to the roster?

The THEY includes MM who is certainly involved in selecting players.

I think McCarthy has a part in the draft, and likely gives his input on it.  I dont think its the draft he's upset with.  I think its the lack of moves in FA and trades.  A GM should be CONSTANTLY looking to upgrade his team.   When you dont do that, you have marginal players like AJ Hawk and Brad Jones as your linebackers for years.   You are telling me you couldnt find anybody better in all those years??  Really??   and if thats the best you can do, what does it say about your depth behind them?   Thompson's draft and develop philosophy needs to be PART of his GM package.  He's selling the Packers short on the FA and trade aspects of his job (although trades in today's NFL are pretty rare).   He's done a good job keeping the Packers in the playoff mix each year, but the post season record speaks for itself.   

Offline ThatGuy284

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Re: Hack McGinn Just Can't Help Himself
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2016, 02:02:30 PM »
I think "fed-up" are terms reporters (or serial editorializers like McGinn) use to make stories, articles and situations seem more dramatic. 

Like Player X BLASTS teammate:

Player X - "I felt like I was open but he chose to shoot the ball"

Like Coach X is SQUARELY ON THE HOT SEAT or FEELING THE HEAT:

GM X - "We evaluate all personnel and coaches regularly"

Like Team X CRUSHED at home

-read Team X missed a 27 yard field goal

Player X TRASHES ex-teammate
-read "Scottie was good, I think Kobe was better"