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Author Topic: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out  (Read 8368 times)

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Offline Bud

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out.
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2016, 07:31:32 PM »
Mike McCarthy teams have advanced to three NFC championship games, the most recent being last season.

How many did Andy Reid's before the heat started to set in? I can't remember but I think CPF may have been referring to "ever again" as in, no more.
“Gold medals aren't really made of gold. They're made of sweat, determination, and a hard-to-find alloy called guts.” ~ Dan Gable

Offline Pugger

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2016, 07:33:54 PM »
Favre throws an ill-timed OT INT.  Sure-handed Micah Hyde (our punt returner) secures an INT that bounces off his hands -or- a player failing to do his job on 1 play and play containment on Kaep, instead choosing to chase inside - and we beat a very strong SF to advance in the playoffs.  This despite a defense absolutely decimated by injury.   Bostick does his actual job and blocks someone - or Peppers doesn't tell a teammate to stop after an INT - or HaHa knocks down a floating desperation heave we are in a 2nd SB, playing a team we just beat a few weeks earlier.   Sam Shields has an INT and we are likely looking at a 4th NFC Championship game despite an offense decimated by injury and playing without 4 of our top 5 WR's!   

Any of those plays and none of these conversations occur.   McCarthy didn't fail on those plays - the players did.  Those aren't coaching mistakes, those aren't adjustment issues.  Those are players coached to be in position to make plays, being in that position, and not making plays they need to make.

If Arizona played without Fitz, Floyd, Brown, Brown and lost to us, the message on this board wouldn't be -"that Arians is terrible and can't make adjustments" and "Keim is a terrible GM for not having a 7th and 8th all-Pro 4.3 WR he should have been able to pick up mid-season."  It would be - what a masterful coaching job he did taking us to OT with his 5th and 6th WR.  The message on this board would have been -"Fire McCarthy, what a terrible job being taken into OT at home with a team decimated by injury"

I think there is some real criticisms to be made in the team's failures at home against some weak teams in the North and failure of the offense to adjust effectively all season, so no, not giving McCarthy and the team any free pass.  The man is not infallible and without flaws.   Here's some perspective - No coach anywhere at any level is.   However, I think blaming an OT loss on the road against Seattle after many individual player letdowns and an OT loss in ARI after player letdowns is just bitching to bitch.  Claiming McCarthy is unable to make adjustments or a coach that has compiled his track record is "wasting" talent is just bitching to bitch.

QFT


Offline Pugger

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2016, 07:40:35 PM »
But if you look at the whole picture, they have not lived up to expectations since the last SB win.   

What are the "expectations"?
To make it to more than one SB during Rodgers career.

And we still CAN.  It isn't like Aaron is 38 years old and his career is practically over.  NE fans know deep down Brady is closing in on the end.  He's gonna be 39 next August.  He says he wants to play well into his 40s but not even the Iron Man #4 could do that.   

Offline Bud

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2016, 07:40:35 PM »
Favre throws an ill-timed OT INT.  Sure-handed Micah Hyde (our punt returner) secures an INT that bounces off his hands -or- a player failing to do his job on 1 play and play containment on Kaep, instead choosing to chase inside - and we beat a very strong SF to advance in the playoffs.  This despite a defense absolutely decimated by injury.   Bostick does his actual job and blocks someone - or Peppers doesn't tell a teammate to stop after an INT - or HaHa knocks down a floating desperation heave we are in a 2nd SB, playing a team we just beat a few weeks earlier.   Sam Shields has an INT and we are likely looking at a 4th NFC Championship game despite an offense decimated by injury and playing without 4 of our top 5 WR's!   

Any of those plays and none of these conversations occur.   McCarthy didn't fail on those plays - the players did.  Those aren't coaching mistakes, those aren't adjustment issues.  Those are players coached to be in position to make plays, being in that position, and not making plays they need to make.

If Arizona played without Fitz, Floyd, Brown, Brown and lost to us, the message on this board wouldn't be -"that Arians is terrible and can't make adjustments" and "Keim is a terrible GM for not having a 7th and 8th all-Pro 4.3 WR he should have been able to pick up mid-season."  It would be - what a masterful coaching job he did taking us to OT with his 5th and 6th WR.  The message on this board would have been -"Fire McCarthy, what a terrible job being taken into OT at home with a team decimated by injury"

I think there is some real criticisms to be made in the team's failures at home against some weak teams in the North and failure of the offense to adjust effectively all season, so no, not giving McCarthy and the team any free pass.  The man is not infallible and without flaws.   Here's some perspective - No coach anywhere at any level is.   However, I think blaming an OT loss on the road against Seattle after many individual player letdowns and an OT loss in ARI after player letdowns is just bitching to bitch.  Claiming McCarthy is unable to make adjustments or a coach that has compiled his track record is "wasting" talent is just bitching to bitch.

A lot of "what ifs". We could go many years and name all the "what ifs". I'm not sure it's very germane but just as people may "bitch to bitch" many use the "what ifs" in the same manner. What's done is done. This team was decimated by injury this year and I think that there are positives going forward.
“Gold medals aren't really made of gold. They're made of sweat, determination, and a hard-to-find alloy called guts.” ~ Dan Gable

Offline Pugger

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out.
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2016, 07:41:24 PM »
Mike McCarthy teams have advanced to three NFC championship games, the most recent being last season.

How many did Andy Reid's before the heat started to set in? I can't remember but I think CPF may have been referring to "ever again" as in, no more.

Of course Andy never won the SB...
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 07:43:14 PM by Pugger »

Offline Bud

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out.
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2016, 07:45:40 PM »
Mike McCarthy teams have advanced to three NFC championship games, the most recent being last season.

How many did Andy Reid's before the heat started to set in? I can't remember but I think CPF may have been referring to "ever again" as in, no more.

Of course Andy never won the SB...

Obviously. How about the fact that what CPF was taken out of context?
“Gold medals aren't really made of gold. They're made of sweat, determination, and a hard-to-find alloy called guts.” ~ Dan Gable

Offline ThatGuy284

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2016, 10:07:18 PM »

A lot of "what ifs". We could go many years and name all the "what ifs". I'm not sure it's very germane but just as people may "bitch to bitch" many use the "what ifs" in the same manner. What's done is done. This team was decimated by injury this year and I think that there are positives going forward.

It is a lot of what-if's.   You know why? - because that's what the NFL boils down to.  Games are often decided on 1 play.  More often it seems in GB because MM teams rarely play in a non-competitive game (ie: vs DEN and ARI this season -- DET last season).   But lets give all the credit for that to future HOF'er Rodgers, not the poor slub riding his coattails and "getting lucky to win the SB"


NE is the only 19-0 team in the history of the NFL IF David Tyree doesn't make a once-in-a-lifetime catch.  Is Tom Coughlin a better coach simply because Tyree makes that catch?  Scott Norwood wouldn't live in infamy and the Bills have a Super Bowl win IF he makes a 47 yard FG.   Marv Levy unable to make adjustments?  He got outcoached?   Mike Zimmer is 0-1 in the Playoffs and Pete Carroll gets a Playoff win under his belt because of a missed 27 yarder or a HOF RB's fumble?  How much criticism should Zimmer receive, how much credit goes to Carroll for that awesome defensive adjustment he made on the FG?

So yes..they are "what-ifs."   Maybe it would just be easier to live in a world in which the best team always wins, those plays just don't exist and the winning coach is amazing, the losing coach is a worn out sole (or is that soul?)

Offline Leader

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2016, 10:53:29 PM »
Favre throws an ill-timed OT INT.  Sure-handed Micah Hyde (our punt returner) secures an INT that bounces off his hands -or- a player failing to do his job on 1 play and play containment on Kaep, instead choosing to chase inside - and we beat a very strong SF to advance in the playoffs.  This despite a defense absolutely decimated by injury.   Bostick does his actual job and blocks someone - or Peppers doesn't tell a teammate to stop after an INT - or HaHa knocks down a floating desperation heave we are in a 2nd SB, playing a team we just beat a few weeks earlier.   Sam Shields has an INT and we are likely looking at a 4th NFC Championship game despite an offense decimated by injury and playing without 4 of our top 5 WR's!   

Any of those plays and none of these conversations occur.   McCarthy didn't fail on those plays - the players did.  Those aren't coaching mistakes, those aren't adjustment issues.  Those are players coached to be in position to make plays, being in that position, and not making plays they need to make.

If Arizona played without Fitz, Floyd, Brown, Brown and lost to us, the message on this board wouldn't be -"that Arians is terrible and can't make adjustments" and "Keim is a terrible GM for not having a 7th and 8th all-Pro 4.3 WR he should have been able to pick up mid-season."  It would be - what a masterful coaching job he did taking us to OT with his 5th and 6th WR.  The message on this board would have been -"Fire McCarthy, what a terrible job being taken into OT at home with a team decimated by injury"

I think there is some real criticisms to be made in the team's failures at home against some weak teams in the North and failure of the offense to adjust effectively all season, so no, not giving McCarthy and the team any free pass.  The man is not infallible and without flaws.   Here's some perspective - No coach anywhere at any level is.   However, I think blaming an OT loss on the road against Seattle after many individual player letdowns and an OT loss in ARI after player letdowns is just bitching to bitch.  Claiming McCarthy is unable to make adjustments or a coach that has compiled his track record is "wasting" talent is just bitching to bitch.   

Correct. Correct. Correct.

With ALL the complaints and "things arent the way they're supposed to be" mircomanaging - we were THERE in multiple BIG GAMES. Right there. Make A play - one play - not even a BIG play - we move on. Those plays didnt get made and thats on the players IMO. As a former player - thats on ME if I'm the one that fails to close the deal.

Would I like TT to sign a veteran sitting on the sidelines? Somebody who could come in and give us half a season (or however long) of "patch" to a hole in our personnel? Yes. Its been done in the past and proven to work. Not always - but its worked. Its gotten us through. We've achieved high ground while doing this.
 
Outside that - we've been there. Right there. A couple plays go different - a couple plays get done the way they should have - we'd have moved on. 


Offline VoiceofReason

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2016, 07:48:28 AM »
But if you look at the whole picture, they have not lived up to expectations since the last SB win.   

What are the "expectations"?
To make it to more than one SB during Rodgers career.

And we still CAN.   

Well, that's what troubles me.  I don't think we can do that with our current GM/HC, unless they are willing to change and show more sense of urgency.  They don't go "all in" whether it's a season or individual playoff game.  Playoff performance since the SB has been awful. 

Offline Leader

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2016, 09:48:03 AM »
Jason Wilde ‏2 minutes ago:
No one is saying titles don't matter, Judd. But winning them is hard. OK to expect more, but perspective matters.

Judd
@jasonjwilde I'm sick of all this how great TT and MM are and we are spoiled. This is the #Packers. Titles matter.

Offline claymaker

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2016, 11:51:30 AM »
But if you look at the whole picture, they have not lived up to expectations since the last SB win.   

What are the "expectations"?
To make it to more than one SB during Rodgers career.

Predict the future. I'll give you 50,000 dollars in cash if you say the Packers will never go to another Superbowl with Rodgers as their QB and it comes true. There is no this and that or would be moves that they did/didn't make. Your expectations are not expectations, they are DEMANDS. You DEMAND Thompson signs players in FA, you DEMAND they draft  the next generation's superstars, you DEMAND they win another Superbowl. You're in no place to make demands of them.

Your expectation every year should be for Green Bay to make the playoffs. Trust me, it will change your life.

Offline VoiceofReason

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2016, 12:16:20 PM »
But if you look at the whole picture, they have not lived up to expectations since the last SB win.   

What are the "expectations"?
To make it to more than one SB during Rodgers career.

Predict the future. I'll give you 50,000 dollars in cash if you say the Packers will never go to another Superbowl with Rodgers as their QB and it comes true. There is no this and that or would be moves that they did/didn't make. Your expectations are not expectations, they are DEMANDS. You DEMAND Thompson signs players in FA, you DEMAND they draft  the next generation's superstars, you DEMAND they win another Superbowl. You're in no place to make demands of them.

Not sure who you're responding to, but it's not me.  I have never demanded certain moves be made, or demand they draft superstars. I'm guessing this yet another straw man argument, but I have never made any demands. Do I expect more than one SB victory in the Rodgers era? YES. 

Will you bet me $50,000 they WILL win another SB while Rodgers is still here?

Offline claymaker

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2016, 01:18:19 PM »
But if you look at the whole picture, they have not lived up to expectations since the last SB win.   

What are the "expectations"?
To make it to more than one SB during Rodgers career.

Predict the future. I'll give you 50,000 dollars in cash if you say the Packers will never go to another Superbowl with Rodgers as their QB and it comes true. There is no this and that or would be moves that they did/didn't make. Your expectations are not expectations, they are DEMANDS. You DEMAND Thompson signs players in FA, you DEMAND they draft  the next generation's superstars, you DEMAND they win another Superbowl. You're in no place to make demands of them.

Not sure who you're responding to, but it's not me.  I have never demanded certain moves be made, or demand they draft superstars. I'm guessing this yet another straw man argument, but I have never made any demands. Do I expect more than one SB victory in the Rodgers era? YES. 

Will you bet me $50,000 they WILL win another SB while Rodgers is still here?

Yes, I was absolutely responding to you.

In the words of Vic Ketchman you're confusing expectations with demands. You're expectations are at elevated levels and have been for a long time. They've turned into demands whether you see it or not. It's like when my wife is constipated, I've expected anal for so long it's become a demand every time she's constipated.

It wasn't a bet. You're not putting any money into the pot so it's not a bet. I simply stated I would give you 50k if you predicted they wouldn't win another Superbowl with Rodgers as their QB and it came true. I like how quickly you turned my statement into a betting contest.

Offline ThatGuy284

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2016, 01:43:57 PM »

Well, that's what troubles me.  I don't think we can do that with our current GM/HC, unless they are willing to change and show more sense of urgency.  They don't go "all in" whether it's a season or individual playoff game.  Playoff performance since the SB has been awful.

This team was ONE play from the Super Bowl last year..ONE play from the NFC Championship game this year.  ONE play from beating SF previously.   This "sense of urgency" is just BS IMO -- the players have proven they can play and compete on the biggest stages, the coaches have proven they can coach and compete on the biggest stages.  They're in every game.**  TT and MM have done a great job keeping this team consistently competitive.  They don't need to swing for the fences and create some mock sense of "urgency" to appease a contingent of fans crying for blood.   The players just need to make the PLAY.

** with the exception of 2013 vs SF.  That is the only performance that has been truly awful.  If that was the product being put on the field consistently I'd be on board with the "anti TT/MM at all costs" crowd.  Thankfully it's not




Offline Pugger

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Re: McCarthy an old shoe that is worn out
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2016, 03:17:14 PM »

Well, that's what troubles me.  I don't think we can do that with our current GM/HC, unless they are willing to change and show more sense of urgency.  They don't go "all in" whether it's a season or individual playoff game.  Playoff performance since the SB has been awful.

This team was ONE play from the Super Bowl last year..ONE play from the NFC Championship game this year.  ONE play from beating SF previously.   This "sense of urgency" is just BS IMO -- the players have proven they can play and compete on the biggest stages, the coaches have proven they can coach and compete on the biggest stages.  They're in every game.**  TT and MM have done a great job keeping this team consistently competitive.  They don't need to swing for the fences and create some mock sense of "urgency" to appease a contingent of fans crying for blood.   The players just need to make the PLAY.

** with the exception of 2013 vs SF.  That is the only performance that has been truly awful.  If that was the product being put on the field consistently I'd be on board with the "anti TT/MM at all costs" crowd.  Thankfully it's not

GMTA