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Author Topic: Peter King sounds off on TT  (Read 17450 times)

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Offline Gregg

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2016, 12:45:39 PM »
For the record, since I think Craig is a good and valuable poster.

IMO, I think we overpaid for both Perry and Crosby.

You are talking about 11 million next year for a kicker and reserve OLB.  And this is a good OLB draft.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 12:46:15 PM by Gregg »

Offline Leader

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2016, 01:02:36 PM »
Most everyone would say that the four FA's Minny and Chicago signed are good players according to their records.

Fear not. Barring a repeat off the 2015 injury bug.....we'll kick their ass.
Its just the way off the world  :)

Offline JQ

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2016, 01:35:34 PM »
Ricky:

1. When you say its not a good crop of Free Agent tight ends, maybe, but its the way you look at it.  IMO, I would take almost any of those guys I listed over what we have right now.

4.  I don't have lunch money.  I am retired.  But Justin is our number two tight end right now.  In other words he is an injury away from being our starter.  Think defenses are worried about that?

Just for the record, the Packers still have Kennard Backman on the roster, who likely is a more athletic player than Perillo. And also for the record, I've also heard McCarren make a few favorable comments about Justin during games, like "All Justin Perillo does is catch everything that's thrown to him." Understand, I'm not saying anything other than what I've heard and read about these kids, but The Rock is pretty objective in his assessment of these young players, in my my opinion. And isn't Quarless still on the roster? Although I think that gun incident has yet to be resolved. My point is the Packers have at least four TEs currently on the roster that are familiar with their system.

AND, I just found this. It looks like the Packers found a way to get Mitchell Henry back on the roster:

Mitchell Henry (born December 11, 1991) is an American football tight end who is currently a member of the Green Bay Packers of the National Football League (NFL). On January 18, 2016, the Packers signed Henry to a future/reserve contract.

These things said, I'd be surprised if the Packers did not acquire more talent at the TE position, whether it by by FA signing, the draft, or some UFA diamond they ferret out. 

Online craig

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2016, 01:44:45 PM »
For the record, since I think Craig is a good and valuable poster.

IMO, I think we overpaid for both Perry and Crosby.

You are talking about 11 million next year for a kicker and reserve OLB.  And this is a good OLB draft.

That's a very reasonable perspective, Gregg, and I think those kind of $$-discussions are really worth discussing.  If you overpay for a guy, that's wasting "arrows", whether it's an internal guy or an outside guy. 

I'm pretty happy with the Perry deal, since I'm kind of optimistic about him as a run-stopping guy who can press the pocket at times, and as a run-stopping guy who can help set up 3rd downs where we can do the creative blitzing.  Being a backup is fine, for a position where you need to really work and where they will split snaps so much. 

I think I'm with you on Crosby, though.  Given the unfilled holes at TE and ILB, what if we'd just taken the crosby money and started calling TE's and ILB's with that to start discussions? 

Back to Perry:  I think his snaps might go up significantly, IF he stays healthy for the first time.  (Yeah, that's a huge and probably very doubtful if, but I'm in hopeful optimistic mode!)  Neal is gone.  Peppers is another year older, and they'll want to save him.  I won't be surprised if Perry isn't playing more snaps than Peppers this season.
*And, I have to admit that given the ILB problem, I'm really skeptical that Matthews is actually going to end up playing all his snaps or some massive majority of his snaps at OLB.  I think there's a pretty good chance that Matthews will end up playing a whole lot of good snaps ILB again.  Which may be possible thanks to the Perry retention, and which will of course open up lots of snaps for Perry if he's playing effectively. 

Offline bbayley

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2016, 02:29:40 PM »
Is King calling out Belichick for being just as quiet so far in FA as Ted is?

I mean Belichick went out and signed Revis and co. and won a SB 2 years ago.  The Broncos just won a SB on pretty much a full free agent roster.  They're probably not getting heat due to the fact they've used the system to their advantage in recent years.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 02:32:32 PM by bbayley »

Offline Shanedorf

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2016, 02:36:14 PM »
Is anybody here qualified to evaluate over-pay vs competitive pay ? I'm certainly not
After a couple of flat years post-CBA, the cap has increased at a pretty significant pace
25 % over what it was a couple years ago is a huge jump, and going forward we're going to see more of the same
Agents know the market, share the comparables and make their case. They are prepared with facts

The teams run their own analysis and determine what's a fair deal. But as soon as the ink is dry on the contract, its outdated
There are DL who will be paid on par with JJ Watt even though they aren't in his ballpark in terms of play. That's a function of a rapidly expanding cap.

NFL just re-upped on Thursday Night Football, moving from $300 million to $450 million for the rights and that's the lowest valued product they have in their inventory. That's 50% growth !
The Sunday and Monday TV packages also went up significantly too.
Over the top of that is the revenue from streaming, which Yahoo and others are bidding on

The net result is that there is an immense amount of growth dollars flowing into the NFL and the agents are well- versed on what that means going forward. Most fans are not. So when you say Nick is overpaid or Mason is overpaid, I'd challenge you to come back with some evidence of other recent ( new) contracts that suggests this is indeed the case. Looking backwards tells us nothing; what do edge rushers get paid going forward ?

http://overthecap.com/position/3-4-outside-linebacker

Additionally, what really matters is not the trumpeted numbers, but how much is guaranteed and how much is fluff
There's a lot more to it than simply spouting " The Packers overpaid"
Perry's deal includes $1 million in per- game incentives, thus de-risking a player with an injury history. That certainly makes a lot of sense and once again, rather than diving into the details, we have omniscient packer fans declaring it an "overpay". Its actually a very smart deal for both the Packers and for Perry.

If you can prove your case,  please do so and we'll all be much wiser for the effort you've invested.
Educate us, illuminate us, enlighten us with your research and facts.

Online craig

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2016, 03:31:58 PM »
...Perry's deal includes $1 million in per- game incentives, thus de-risking a player with an injury history. That certainly makes a lot of sense ....

I hadn't seen any links to details about Perry's contract on PC until your comment, here's the twitter and spotrac links.   

https://twitter.com/AaronWilson_NFL/status/709423493817901057
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/nick-perry/

$1.5 signing bonus guaranteed, $2.3 if makes team, then $1 in per-game incentives, another $250K in playing time. 

What are rules for non-guaranteed deals and injury?  If gets injured in camp, can you cut him and save the $3.5?  Or is it illegal to cut a guy and deprive him of salary based on injury?   

Offline cpk1994

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2016, 03:59:04 PM »
To be fair to Peter King, who I enjoy reading, the Chargers signed Gates to a two year deal.

Second, they also signed Travis Benjamin as an FA.  Which means they have Gates, Allen and Benjamin as starters.

Therefore, they may not have wanted to get into a bidding war over a second string TE.

See, that was in the San Diego Union Tribune also.
But you are missing the point. THey signed a way past his prime Antonio Gates over the young guy with potential. The fact that they are flush with cash and chose to go with the over the hill guy should tell you something.
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Offline cpk1994

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2016, 04:02:27 PM »
Isn't that the point?

Ron Wolf availed himself of every arrow in his quiver:  FA, UFA, trades, the draft.

Minny is going to have a good team next year.  They now have good management and a good coach.

It looks like the Bears are doing the same.

If all we do is stay in place, we are going to be endangered.
We hear that about the Bears and Vikes year after year. What happens? They suck, they keep having to change management while TT keeps winning.  I'll take TT's record over theirs every day of the week.
"Aaron Rodgers is a baaaaaaad man" - Stephen A. Smith

Offline Lodestar

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2016, 04:14:42 PM »
Isn't that the point?

Ron Wolf availed himself of every arrow in his quiver:  FA, UFA, trades, the draft.

Minny is going to have a good team next year.  They now have good management and a good coach.

It looks like the Bears are doing the same.

If all we do is stay in place, we are going to be endangered.
We hear that about the Bears and Vikes year after year. What happens? They suck, they keep having to change management while TT keeps winning.  I'll take TT's record over theirs every day of the week.

This x1000000000

Offline hitnhope

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2016, 04:14:55 PM »
Is anybody here qualified to evaluate over-pay vs competitive pay ? I'm certainly not
After a couple of flat years post-CBA, the cap has increased at a pretty significant pace
25 % over what it was a couple years ago is a huge jump, and going forward we're going to see more of the same
Agents know the market, share the comparables and make their case. They are prepared with facts

The teams run their own analysis and determine what's a fair deal. But as soon as the ink is dry on the contract, its outdated
There are DL who will be paid on par with JJ Watt even though they aren't in his ballpark in terms of play. That's a function of a rapidly expanding cap.

NFL just re-upped on Thursday Night Football, moving from $300 million to $450 million for the rights and that's the lowest valued product they have in their inventory. That's 50% growth !
The Sunday and Monday TV packages also went up significantly too.
Over the top of that is the revenue from streaming, which Yahoo and others are bidding on

The net result is that there is an immense amount of growth dollars flowing into the NFL and the agents are well- versed on what that means going forward. Most fans are not. So when you say Nick is overpaid or Mason is overpaid, I'd challenge you to come back with some evidence of other recent ( new) contracts that suggests this is indeed the case. Looking backwards tells us nothing; what do edge rushers get paid going forward ?

http://overthecap.com/position/3-4-outside-linebacker

Additionally, what really matters is not the trumpeted numbers, but how much is guaranteed and how much is fluff
There's a lot more to it than simply spouting " The Packers overpaid"
Perry's deal includes $1 million in per- game incentives, thus de-risking a player with an injury history. That certainly makes a lot of sense and once again, rather than diving into the details, we have omniscient packer fans declaring it an "overpay". Its actually a very smart deal for both the Packers and for Perry.

If you can prove your case,  please do so and we'll all be much wiser for the effort you've invested.
Educate us, illuminate us, enlighten us with your research and facts.

Why are you on a Packers message board?   You keep posting that nobody on a board has enough info.

You have posted a number of posts in the last few days that basically say that anyone who questions any GM in football is foolish.   That  non-Gm's lack the information.   

Well to a certain extent you are correct-  we do not have all of the information.   BUT-  For every GM not making a move (with the info)  there is another GM making moves (also with the info).

The successful teams draft and develop, and mix in some use of free agency to fill holes.    Essentially we have evidence based on the last 5+ years that this is the mix that yields SB success.  It even worked that way for TT.  His SB success was built in no small measure with Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett.   

We now have a GM who does 1/2 his job pretty darn well, but ignores an important part of his job to the detriment of the team.     I don't want a GM who is out signing marginal QB's for $18 million a year.  I also do not want a GM who leaves large holes on his team that could be filled with reasonable contracts, while his key personnel just get another year older.

Online Hands

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2016, 04:15:07 PM »
Maybe with Cook coming in for a visit will settle down the discussion about TT being a bad GM.
In the land of the blind.....the one eye man is king!

Offline ricky

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2016, 04:57:26 PM »
For the record, since I think Craig is a good and valuable poster.

IMO, I think we overpaid for both Perry and Crosby.

How so? didn't you write that the salary cap had risen, and should be used to sign FA's? Both Perry and Crosby were FA's. They were re-signed. Besides, the Packers saved a couple of million by not exercising the fifth year option on Perry, but re-signing him instead.

You are talking about 11 million next year for a kicker and reserve OLB.  And this is a good OLB draft.

What about kickers? A good draft for them? Crosby kicks in one of the most challenging environments in the NFL for half the season. And you want to replace a known quantity with an unknown?

By the bye, you're retired? How long? I've been out for four years, and its absolutely great!



 
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Offline cpk1994

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2016, 05:00:06 PM »
Is anybody here qualified to evaluate over-pay vs competitive pay ? I'm certainly not
After a couple of flat years post-CBA, the cap has increased at a pretty significant pace
25 % over what it was a couple years ago is a huge jump, and going forward we're going to see more of the same
Agents know the market, share the comparables and make their case. They are prepared with facts

The teams run their own analysis and determine what's a fair deal. But as soon as the ink is dry on the contract, its outdated
There are DL who will be paid on par with JJ Watt even though they aren't in his ballpark in terms of play. That's a function of a rapidly expanding cap.

NFL just re-upped on Thursday Night Football, moving from $300 million to $450 million for the rights and that's the lowest valued product they have in their inventory. That's 50% growth !
The Sunday and Monday TV packages also went up significantly too.
Over the top of that is the revenue from streaming, which Yahoo and others are bidding on

The net result is that there is an immense amount of growth dollars flowing into the NFL and the agents are well- versed on what that means going forward. Most fans are not. So when you say Nick is overpaid or Mason is overpaid, I'd challenge you to come back with some evidence of other recent ( new) contracts that suggests this is indeed the case. Looking backwards tells us nothing; what do edge rushers get paid going forward ?

http://overthecap.com/position/3-4-outside-linebacker

Additionally, what really matters is not the trumpeted numbers, but how much is guaranteed and how much is fluff
There's a lot more to it than simply spouting " The Packers overpaid"
Perry's deal includes $1 million in per- game incentives, thus de-risking a player with an injury history. That certainly makes a lot of sense and once again, rather than diving into the details, we have omniscient packer fans declaring it an "overpay". Its actually a very smart deal for both the Packers and for Perry.

If you can prove your case,  please do so and we'll all be much wiser for the effort you've invested.
Educate us, illuminate us, enlighten us with your research and facts.

Why are you on a Packers message board?   You keep posting that nobody on a board has enough info.

You have posted a number of posts in the last few days that basically say that anyone who questions any GM in football is foolish.   That  non-Gm's lack the information.   

Well to a certain extent you are correct-  we do not have all of the information.   BUT-  For every GM not making a move (with the info)  there is another GM making moves (also with the info).

The successful teams draft and develop, and mix in some use of free agency to fill holes.    Essentially we have evidence based on the last 5+ years that this is the mix that yields SB success.  It even worked that way for TT.  His SB success was built in no small measure with Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett.   

We now have a GM who does 1/2 his job pretty darn well, but ignores an important part of his job to the detriment of the team.     I don't want a GM who is out signing marginal QB's for $18 million a year.  I also do not want a GM who leaves large holes on his team that could be filled with reasonable contracts, while his key personnel just get another year older.
Nobody has said that it is foolish to question the GM. What is being called out is posters who come off like they are smarter than TT, MM and their respective staffs. Just because you think someone can fill a hole doesn't mean they would. TT has decades in teh business and has been a success. Those who act like they are smarter than him have zero. Guess who I trust more? I'll give you a hint: It isn't the ones posting here who think they are smarter than those who have spent decades in the business.
"Aaron Rodgers is a baaaaaaad man" - Stephen A. Smith

Offline cpk1994

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Re: Peter King sounds off on TT
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2016, 05:03:35 PM »
Ricky:

1. When you say its not a good crop of Free Agent tight ends, maybe, but its the way you look at it.  IMO, I would take almost any of those guys I listed over what we have right now.

4.  I don't have lunch money.  I am retired.  But Justin is our number two tight end right now.  In other words he is an injury away from being our starter.  Think defenses are worried about that?

Just for the record, the Packers still have Kennard Backman on the roster, who likely is a more athletic player than Perillo. And also for the record, I've also heard McCarren make a few favorable comments about Justin during games, like "All Justin Perillo does is catch everything that's thrown to him." Understand, I'm not saying anything other than what I've heard and read about these kids, but The Rock is pretty objective in his assessment of these young players, in my my opinion. And isn't Quarless still on the roster? Although I think that gun incident has yet to be resolved. My point is the Packers have at least four TEs currently on the roster that are familiar with their system.

AND, I just found this. It looks like the Packers found a way to get Mitchell Henry back on the roster:

Mitchell Henry (born December 11, 1991) is an American football tight end who is currently a member of the Green Bay Packers of the National Football League (NFL). On January 18, 2016, the Packers signed Henry to a future/reserve contract.

These things said, I'd be surprised if the Packers did not acquire more talent at the TE position, whether it by by FA signing, the draft, or some UFA diamond they ferret out.
Quarless is a FA and the Packers don't plan to re-sign him.
"Aaron Rodgers is a baaaaaaad man" - Stephen A. Smith