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Author Topic: Baffling  (Read 8924 times)

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Online cheech

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Baffling
« on: March 24, 2016, 08:31:53 AM »
I'm not looking to rehash the Janis/Jones debate here.  Far from it.  What I find absolutely baffling is that MM still blames the offensive implosion on his receivers being unable to win 1 on 1's. 

“Our biggest failure on offense is defenses challenged us with seven, eight men in the box and schematically I don’t know really how much more we could’ve done,” McCarthy said at Wednesday’s NFC coaches breakfast at the NFL owners meetings. “We didn’t do a very good job winning the one-on-ones on the perimeter and the fact of the matter is when you have one more than the offense has at the line of scrimmage all day long, obviously it’s more challenging for the running game and it’s obviously the focus on keeping Aaron (Rodgers) in the box.

He even had the nerve to act like he tried to scheme his receivers open when anyone with half a brain that was watching the season could throw the BS flag on that statement. 

“You can run every crossing route in football and get in stacks and bunches — and we’ve done it — but at the end of the day it comes down to beating the other guy with your technique and your fundamentals."


I'm sorry if it ruffles some feathers - but I just lost a lot of respect for the guy.  He chose to stick to his guns with a 4.8 receiver and 4.95 TE.  Technique and fundamentals aren't going to make up for the lack of speed and athleticism that he chose to play at those positions.  He didn't stack receivers.  He didn't run crossing routes.  The offense and the entire team paid dearly for his inability to go away from isolation routes that didn't work for 12 weeks of the season. 
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 08:35:16 AM by cheech »
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Offline Pugger

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2016, 08:43:24 AM »
But those same routes have worked for us in the past.   There have been many pedestrian/slower than average WRs and TEs that have been successful in this league by using good technique and fundamentals to get open.   Most agree that not having a separate WR coach last year limited the development of our young WRs.  IMO it is no coincidence our passing game suffered because of it.  Thankfully Mike has seen the errors of his ways and  we now have a WR coach and QB coach.  I'm gonna wager we will see a big improvement in the play of both AR and our WRs this coming season.

Offline eX Oh

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2016, 08:45:10 AM »
Plenty of stacks, screens, and crossing routes were run.  Every man-beater concept was trotted out at one point. 

I remember quite vividly watching Randall Cobb being locked down on a crossing route by a freakin' ILB. 

MM is spot on.  The WR crew was terrible last year, along with the rest of the offense. 

You WERE right about there being no need to rehash it, but then you did.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 08:46:19 AM by eX Oh »

Offline philepps85

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Personnel, not scheme?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2016, 09:18:24 AM »
Well, MM has given his definitive answer to whether it was scheme or personnel that caused the second-half offensive flop last season.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/200795/packers-offensive-plan-for-2016-get-down-the-middle-and-get-open

I guess what stuns me is that the coaching staff didn't notice the receivers' shortcomings until AFTER THE SEASON. I'm not arrogant enough to think I could handle an NFL coaching gig, but the lack of speed was strikingly obvious to fans and commentators every week for three months.

I'm also concerned that MM won't so much as tweak the scheme. If the assumption is Jordy's return will cure everything, I think they're in for a rude awakening. Even when Nelson was healthy and playing, scouts in late 2014 were saying defenses had started to figure out how to neutralize him.

No need to go back to square one, obviously, but, besides needing the young WRs/TEs to stand up, the staff ought to seriously consider scheme changes.

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Personnel, not scheme?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2016, 09:39:36 AM »
At least they are publicly acknowledging the problem.

It's sad that they were so adamant (in season) that they felt nothing was really wrong.   :-\

I find it interesting that they feel it's not totally necessary that they HAVE to have a tight end to hit the deep middle seam, and that a big WR could accomplish the same goal.

Online cheech

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Re: Personnel, not scheme?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2016, 10:17:42 AM »
First - The topic might have been hashed to death this season - but it is relevant because it is the single reason that the offense struggled throughout the year.  It is also relevant again because MM has doubled down on his position.  He's blaming personnel. 

The role of a coach is to use whatever personnel he has to make the team better.  If he's not willing to change personnel then why not change scheme?  He says that they tried everything and that is absolute BS.  He didn't give all of his personnel a shot at making a difference.  He didn't stack receivers.  The entire season he ran isolation routes with the same personnel.  The offense ran into a wall week-in and week-out because of the same issues and he didn't change.  That's not on the receiving core.  That's not on Aaron Rodgers or the offensive line.  That is on Mike McCarthy. 
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2016, 10:32:00 AM »
I do agree with MM's assessment that they need a big body (TE or big WR) to go over the middle or down the deep middle seam.

Offline cpk1994

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2016, 11:36:50 AM »
Plenty of stacks, screens, and crossing routes were run.  Every man-beater concept was trotted out at one point. 

I remember quite vividly watching Randall Cobb being locked down on a crossing route by a freakin' ILB. 

MM is spot on.  The WR crew was terrible last year, along with the rest of the offense. 

You WERE right about there being no need to rehash it, but then you did.
Exactly. Though there were times at end of games(Thanksgiving night vs. Bears) where is was absent when it should have been used.
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Online cheech

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2016, 02:56:28 PM »
Plenty of stacks, screens, and crossing routes were run.  Every man-beater concept was trotted out at one point. 

I remember quite vividly watching Randall Cobb being locked down on a crossing route by a freakin' ILB. 

MM is spot on.  The WR crew was terrible last year, along with the rest of the offense. 

You WERE right about there being no need to rehash it, but then you did.

And yet he continually went back to the Richard Rodgers 3 yard out route on third and 8. 

Where oh where could he have found a big, fast WR who could have challenged the safeties? 

Hypocritical bs from a coach who refused to use his entire toolbox.  He'll blame it on the players and the GM but when does it fall on him?  He's not afraid to give the axe to a RB's coach or ST coach when bad things happen but when the entire offense collapses because one player is out?  The guy needed to stand up and take responsibility and he chose to defer to the personnel.  What a freaking leader.
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Offline Pugger

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2016, 05:57:02 PM »
Plenty of stacks, screens, and crossing routes were run.  Every man-beater concept was trotted out at one point. 

I remember quite vividly watching Randall Cobb being locked down on a crossing route by a freakin' ILB. 

MM is spot on.  The WR crew was terrible last year, along with the rest of the offense. 

You WERE right about there being no need to rehash it, but then you did.

And yet he continually went back to the Richard Rodgers 3 yard out route on third and 8. 

Where oh where could he have found a big, fast WR who could have challenged the safeties? 

Hypocritical bs from a coach who refused to use his entire toolbox.  He'll blame it on the players and the GM but when does it fall on him?  He's not afraid to give the axe to a RB's coach or ST coach when bad things happen but when the entire offense collapses because one player is out?  The guy needed to stand up and take responsibility and he chose to defer to the personnel.  What a freaking leader.

If we kept going to RRod in these situations it really demonstrates the sad situation our TE position is presently.   :-\

Online ricky

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2016, 06:04:21 PM »
And yet he continually went back to the Richard Rodgers 3 yard out route on third and 8. 

Where oh where could he have found a big, fast WR who could have challenged the safeties? 

Well, first, if Rodgers was the only receiver open, even if was only three yards out, then it was not MM deciding to throw to him, but the interception-phobic AR. Once the play is drawn up and selected, its up to the players to win their one-on-one matchups.

And if you're writing about Janis with that second comment, well, this has been rehashed ad nauseum. In a nutshell, Rodgers doesn't trust Janis. Period. End of story. And please do bring up the miracle catches in Arizona, because that's what they were- miracles. What the Packers need is a reliable route runner that is in synch with the uQB. That is not Janis. And maybe it never will be. Though he may well stay with the team because he is a special team standout.

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Online cheech

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2016, 06:58:30 PM »
And yet he continually went back to the Richard Rodgers 3 yard out route on third and 8. 

Where oh where could he have found a big, fast WR who could have challenged the safeties? 

Well, first, if Rodgers was the only receiver open, even if was only three yards out, then it was not MM deciding to throw to him, but the interception-phobic AR. Once the play is drawn up and selected, its up to the players to win their one-on-one matchups.

And if you're writing about Janis with that second comment, well, this has been rehashed ad nauseum. In a nutshell, Rodgers doesn't trust Janis. Period. End of story. And please do bring up the miracle catches in Arizona, because that's what they were- miracles. What the Packers need is a reliable route runner that is in synch with the uQB. That is not Janis. And maybe it never will be. Though he may well stay with the team because he is a special team standout.

I'm not making this about Janis.  This is Mike McCarthy refusing to take an ounce of blame even though it was evident by week 6 that  what he was doing on offense was clearly not going to work. 

If you want to argue that Janis or Abby wouldn't have been better options than Dick Rodgers that's your prerogative. 
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Offline Pugger

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2016, 06:31:42 AM »
And yet he continually went back to the Richard Rodgers 3 yard out route on third and 8. 

Where oh where could he have found a big, fast WR who could have challenged the safeties? 

Well, first, if Rodgers was the only receiver open, even if was only three yards out, then it was not MM deciding to throw to him, but the interception-phobic AR. Once the play is drawn up and selected, its up to the players to win their one-on-one matchups.

And if you're writing about Janis with that second comment, well, this has been rehashed ad nauseum. In a nutshell, Rodgers doesn't trust Janis. Period. End of story. And please do bring up the miracle catches in Arizona, because that's what they were- miracles. What the Packers need is a reliable route runner that is in synch with the uQB. That is not Janis. And maybe it never will be. Though he may well stay with the team because he is a special team standout.

I'm not making this about Janis.  This is Mike McCarthy refusing to take an ounce of blame even though it was evident by week 6 that  what he was doing on offense was clearly not going to work. 

If you want to argue that Janis or Abby wouldn't have been better options than Dick Rodgers that's your prerogative.

From here it appears MM is the kind of coach that rewards players who do well in practice with playing time on Sunday.  Perhaps Janis is one of those kids who struggles with the playbook and at practice so he was relegated to ST and only played WR because we ran out of bodies in that playoff game but once he got in there produced?  Wasn't Paul Hornung like this - didn't practice all that well but was lights out once the game started?  And now that Mike has seen how Jeff played in AZ he should be more willing to give him more playing time this coming season.  Jeff has what you can't teach: size and speed. 

But we still need a TE with more speed who is a bigger threat than RRod.   When you have a guy who can stretch the field defenses have to account for him because they don't know if he'll be blocking or going out for a pass.

Online B

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2016, 11:24:03 AM »
Blame??? Seriously?

Championships, success, and teams are never built throughout blame frames.

Players and coaches are challenged to continue to grow, develop, and succeed.

Mike McCarthy in an off-season evaluation is naming the changes that need to happen to improve this team. That is what winning coaches do, and that is how the foundation of success is laid for the season ahead.

Fans looking for the coach to take blame, or to blame players are going to be disappointed. Accountability and blame are two very different concepts.
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They just ran out of time.
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Online cheech

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2016, 06:31:55 PM »
Blame??? Seriously?

Championships, success, and teams are never built throughout blame frames.

Players and coaches are challenged to continue to grow, develop, and succeed.

Mike McCarthy in an off-season evaluation is naming the changes that need to happen to improve this team. That is what winning coaches do, and that is how the foundation of success is laid for the season ahead.

Fans looking for the coach to take blame, or to blame players are going to be disappointed. Accountability and blame are two very different concepts.

Did you not read the artice?  He directly placed the blame of the offenses struggles on his receivers not being able to win isolation routes.  He's been batching in the press that he needs a big fast tight end or WR to run the seam and challenge safeties. 

He fired the RB's and TE coaches.  He was willing to axe the ST coach.  Yet when his offense tanks with the best QB in the NFL at the helm he has the nerve to blame the players?

He has the nerve to say they tried everything when clearly they didNT until injuries completely forced his hand?  That's some BS.
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