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Author Topic: Baffling  (Read 10106 times)

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Offline iarwain

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2016, 12:35:17 AM »
Championships, success, and teams are never built throughout blame frames.

Players and coaches are challenged to continue to grow, develop, and succeed.
This topic is important because I'm sure no Packer fan wants the offense to suffer another anemic season like the last one.
I would think the coaches could also be challenged to grow, develop, and succeed.

Offline B

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2016, 01:51:01 AM »
Championships, success, and teams are never built throughout blame frames.

Players and coaches are challenged to continue to grow, develop, and succeed.
This topic is important because I'm sure no Packer fan wants the offense to suffer another anemic season like the last one.
I would think the coaches could also be challenged to grow, develop, and succeed.

Mike has challenged himself and his staff to grow, develop and succeed. He has just finished a complete self, coaching staff and player evaluation top to bottom. He is now in the process of putting together his preliminary plan for attacking the 2016 season.

He has publicly stated that he wants the team to do a better job of attacking the middle of the field. He has challenged his team (players and coaches) to step up. He didn't scapegoat or blame any one - he offered honest, fair and relatively obvious evaluation.

ďOur biggest failure on offense is defenses challenged us with seven, eight men in the box, and schematically I donít know really how much more we couldíve done. We threw a lot back at the defenses, particularly the second half of the season. After going through the scheme evaluation, itís more fundamental and winning the one-on-ones. We didnít do a very good job winning the one-on-ones on the perimeter and the fact of the matter is when you have one more than the offense has at the line of scrimmage all day long, obviously itís more challenging for the running game and itís obviously the focus on keeping Aaron in the box. I hope we see it again this year, but we didnít do a very good job of winning those one-on-ones, and thatís really the facts of the matter. We consistently saw very similar defenses throughout the year and you have to win those situations. You can run every crossing route in football and get in stacks and bunches -- and weíve done it -- but at the end of the day it comes down to beating the other guy with your technique and your fundamentals."

ďLetís be honest, the middle of the field is open now. League rules. Big people running down the middle of the field, Iíll make no secret about it. I think thatís a key to offensive success, whether thatís a big receiver or big tight end or a big man running down the middle of the field, making those safeties cover you. Itís an important part of playing in todayís NFL.Ē


Is the premise of this thread that they didn't try? If so, that is demonstratively false.

Cheech, are you serious? Do you disagree with his evaluations? If so how?

He never uttered a word of blame when doing his job and replacing the running backs and TE position coaches, he was doing the job, replacing coaches who failed to adequately teach and help their players to advance. At TE Quarless went backwards and none of the young guys showed anything close to being ready to step up in the classroom of the field. Richard Rodgers is who he is, and was not adequate as the lone tight end, especially with a depleted WR corp - Nelson, the team's number 1 down before the season began, Adams injured and failing to take the next step, Cobb hobbled early and playing hurt all year and Ty Montgomery, who didnít play after Week 6, joining Nelson on the injured reserve. As much as I like Jared Abbrederis, he spent more time on the training table and unavailable than not and Jeff Janis was so mentally unprepared that Aaron was screaming for the coaches to get him off the field every time they put him in. Add the fact that Aaron was playing injured and yet the Packers won their first playoff game against Washington and took the Card to overtime before ending their 2015 quest for #13.

Those are simple facts, not excuses, nor blame.

Mike is spot on in says he wants someone who can get open down the seam and when he says that when they put Nelson inside, ďitís a whole different set of problemsĒ for defenses.

ďLetís be honest, the middle of the field is open now. League rules. Big people running down the middle of the field, Iíll make no secret about it. I think thatís a key to offensive success, whether thatís a big receiver or big tight end or a big man running down the middle of the field, making those safeties cover you. Itís an important part of playing in todayís NFL.Ē

Continue your quest to seek blame if you so desire. Mike McCarthy, his staff and the players that will make his team in 2016 have much bigger fish to fry - they need to build a cohesive team and go after their top goal of bring home the Lombardi.


 
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline ricky

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2016, 06:32:35 AM »
Its a very simple question: is it plays or players? The answer is also simple. Its players. Football is about eleven men trying to win their individual challenges against eleven other men. Where and how you utilize those men is important. But, if those men on offense don't perform their assigned tasks, then the play will not be successful; it will be successful if the players do perform their assigned tasks. The same can be said of the defenders.

Plays/schemes are meant to find a weakness in the opposition and exploit that weakness. That is what occurred last year with the WR's. To believe the coaches either didn't see the problem, or didn't try to address this weakness is ludicrous. The "if only" solutions you offer are interesting- but do you seriously believe the professional coaches with the Packers, with decades of experience, didn't think of those options? That they were simply stubborn or inept?

The Packers lost Nelson; Cobb was playing hurt for a considerable amount of time; Adams had a terrible year, for some reason; and Jones was effective early on, then was a non-factor. Montgomery was hurt after showing some flashes, then put on IR. Why not try Abby or Janis? I'm sure that was considered, but it was apparently not seen as a viable solution. Because if it was a solution, it would have been implemented. Unless, of course, the coaches who see these players every day know less than us casual fans.

"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline cheech

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2016, 08:19:17 AM »
McCarthy can say that he stacked receivers and that he ran crossing routes but that is a complete load of bull.  He continually ran the same personnel groupings out on to the field, and yes, they continually failed to win quote on 1's.  This was obvious by week 6.  And he didn't change jack squat.

He didn't stack his receivers.  He didn't run crossing routes.  He didn't play Abbrederis or Janis when it was blatantly obvious that what he was doing wasn't working.  He insisted on running the hurry-up offense. 

And then Janis and Abby absolutely proved that in the biggest game of the year they were ready.  Janis ran every route he needed to.  He was the big, fast WR that the offense needed all year.

If you've done any coaching in your life you would know that when something isn't working you either change the players or the plays.  You try something different.  MM did neither.
I'm right and everyone else does not have an opinion worth talking about.

Offline Twain

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2016, 09:09:20 AM »
And then Janis and Abby absolutely proved that in the biggest game of the year they were ready.  Janis ran every route he needed to.  He was the big, fast WR that the offense needed all year.

If you've done any coaching in your life you would know that when something isn't working you either change the players or the plays.  You try something different.  MM did neither.

So what you are saying is that MM did indeed change players.  He just waited until the players were ready and it counted for something.  By waiting it gave him the advantage of not giving film to Arizona to prepare with.

Remember, Abby was hurt much of the season- he did get opportunities which he was successful with until he got the chest injury. 
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2016, 09:32:54 AM »
There are two sides to this argument, but the real truth lies somewhere is the middle of these polar opposite opinions.

cheech isn't alone with how he feels. So I feel he has a right to his opinion.


http://packersguru.com/2016/01/25/packers-mike-mccarthy-not-ted-thompson-to-blame-for-failures/

Offline Twain

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2016, 12:05:24 PM »
There are two sides to this argument, but the real truth lies somewhere is the middle of these polar opposite opinions.

cheech isn't alone with how he feels. So I feel he has a right to his opinion.


http://packersguru.com/2016/01/25/packers-mike-mccarthy-not-ted-thompson-to-blame-for-failures/

I agree, Cheech and other posters are entitled to feel the way they do.

I really can't get that excited about what McCarthy says at this point though, as it is a lot of words meant to not say much in response to media obligations.  In terms of last season, I don't really care that they didn't win the division last year.  McCarthy was able to take a team with health issues on offense, get them into the playoffs, convincingly win the wild card game and then take the #2 seed to overtime with only 3 healthy receivers for most of the game if I recall correctly.

The players know they weren't winning their 1 on 1's.  No secret there.  I think the message in McCarthy's statement is there will be open competition for spots and guys need to work this off season to rehab their injuries, improve their route running and get better at their craft.  He's not going to talk scheme.  Any thoughts he might have on scheme he will keep to himself so as to not tip his hand.

Hopefully the WR corps takes this to heart and works hard this off season so they come back ready to make the big step up.
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline Skinny

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2016, 04:35:26 PM »
McCarthy is so full of crap, its not even funny. You know he says the same thing every off season. All lies too, going back to day 1 on the job when he says he wanted a big, physical, tough team, the Pittsburg Steelers of the Midwest he proclaimed, come on man, we aint seen even close to that.  Ill be so glad when hes gone next January.  And Ted can take the train as well if they don't get it done.  Needless to say I'm really looking forward to the Eliot Wolf era.

Offline ricky

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2016, 05:58:28 PM »
There are two sides to this argument, but the real truth lies somewhere is the middle of these polar opposite opinions.

cheech isn't alone with how he feels. So I feel he has a right to his opinion.


http://packersguru.com/2016/01/25/packers-mike-mccarthy-not-ted-thompson-to-blame-for-failures/

danno, disagreement is not censorship. Of course he has a right to his opinion. And though I and others disagree, and continue to disagree, cheech has been able to put his thoughts here without, as far as I read, anyone attacking him personally, or suggesting he doesn't have the right to air his opinion.
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline Pugger

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2016, 06:16:41 PM »
McCarthy is so full of crap, its not even funny. You know he says the same thing every off season. All lies too, going back to day 1 on the job when he says he wanted a big, physical, tough team, the Pittsburg Steelers of the Midwest he proclaimed, come on man, we aint seen even close to that.  Ill be so glad when hes gone next January.  And Ted can take the train as well if they don't get it done.  Needless to say I'm really looking forward to the Eliot Wolf era.

What makes you believe Eliot Wolf will be better than Ted Thompson?

Offline cheech

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2016, 08:13:25 PM »
And then Janis and Abby absolutely proved that in the biggest game of the year they were ready.  Janis ran every route he needed to.  He was the big, fast WR that the offense needed all year.

If you've done any coaching in your life you would know that when something isn't working you either change the players or the plays.  You try something different.  MM did neither.

So what you are saying is that MM did indeed change players.  He just waited until the players were ready and it counted for something.  By waiting it gave him the advantage of not giving film to Arizona to prepare with.

Remember, Abby was hurt much of the season- he did get opportunities which he was successful with until he got the chest injury.

This was no strategy.  Adams was dinged up and then Cobb was puking up blood.  Janis, Abby and Jones were the only healthy receivers left.  Even then MM only played Janis 40 snaps.  He didn't play Janis for the majority of the third quarter and the offense again stalled without him in. 

I think too many are simply giving MM a free pass on this one when he clearly needs to shoulder a big chunk of the blame.
I'm right and everyone else does not have an opinion worth talking about.

Offline Pugger

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2016, 04:36:03 AM »
And then Janis and Abby absolutely proved that in the biggest game of the year they were ready.  Janis ran every route he needed to.  He was the big, fast WR that the offense needed all year.

If you've done any coaching in your life you would know that when something isn't working you either change the players or the plays.  You try something different.  MM did neither.

So what you are saying is that MM did indeed change players.  He just waited until the players were ready and it counted for something.  By waiting it gave him the advantage of not giving film to Arizona to prepare with.

Remember, Abby was hurt much of the season- he did get opportunities which he was successful with until he got the chest injury.

This was no strategy.  Adams was dinged up and then Cobb was puking up blood.  Janis, Abby and Jones were the only healthy receivers left.  Even then MM only played Janis 40 snaps.  He didn't play Janis for the majority of the third quarter and the offense again stalled without him in. 

I think too many are simply giving MM a free pass on this one when he clearly needs to shoulder a big chunk of the blame.

We don't know if Janis was screwing up his routes and that was why he didn't play for a stretch there either.

Offline cpk1994

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2016, 08:11:47 AM »
Its a very simple question: is it plays or players? The answer is also simple. Its players. Football is about eleven men trying to win their individual challenges against eleven other men. Where and how you utilize those men is important. But, if those men on offense don't perform their assigned tasks, then the play will not be successful; it will be successful if the players do perform their assigned tasks. The same can be said of the defenders.

Plays/schemes are meant to find a weakness in the opposition and exploit that weakness. That is what occurred last year with the WR's. To believe the coaches either didn't see the problem, or didn't try to address this weakness is ludicrous. The "if only" solutions you offer are interesting- but do you seriously believe the professional coaches with the Packers, with decades of experience, didn't think of those options? That they were simply stubborn or inept?

The Packers lost Nelson; Cobb was playing hurt for a considerable amount of time; Adams had a terrible year, for some reason; and Jones was effective early on, then was a non-factor. Montgomery was hurt after showing some flashes, then put on IR. Why not try Abby or Janis? I'm sure that was considered, but it was apparently not seen as a viable solution. Because if it was a solution, it would have been implemented. Unless, of course, the coaches who see these players every day know less than us casual fans.
Adams was playing hurt for most of the season. Not hard to see why he struggled.
"Aaron Rodgers is a baaaaaaad man" - Stephen A. Smith

Offline cpk1994

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2016, 08:17:49 AM »
And yet he continually went back to the Richard Rodgers 3 yard out route on third and 8. 

Where oh where could he have found a big, fast WR who could have challenged the safeties? 

Well, first, if Rodgers was the only receiver open, even if was only three yards out, then it was not MM deciding to throw to him, but the interception-phobic AR. Once the play is drawn up and selected, its up to the players to win their one-on-one matchups.

And if you're writing about Janis with that second comment, well, this has been rehashed ad nauseum. In a nutshell, Rodgers doesn't trust Janis. Period. End of story. And please do bring up the miracle catches in Arizona, because that's what they were- miracles. What the Packers need is a reliable route runner that is in synch with the uQB. That is not Janis. And maybe it never will be. Though he may well stay with the team because he is a special team standout.
oh that second statement is definitely about Janis. In fact this thread was created at a disguised attempt for him to once again push his narrative that Jeff Janis was a stud reciever that MM refused to use and would have automatically opened up the defense despite the fact Janis had over 70 snaps and did nothing with them. This thread needs to be locked as it is doing nothing but beating a dead horse because a poster has overrated Janis.
"Aaron Rodgers is a baaaaaaad man" - Stephen A. Smith

Offline cpk1994

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2016, 08:21:51 AM »
McCarthy is so full of crap, its not even funny. You know he says the same thing every off season. All lies too, going back to day 1 on the job when he says he wanted a big, physical, tough team, the Pittsburg Steelers of the Midwest he proclaimed, come on man, we aint seen even close to that.  Ill be so glad when hes gone next January.  And Ted can take the train as well if they don't get it done.  Needless to say I'm really looking forward to the Eliot Wolf era.
MM isn't leaving in January.  The fact that you want to dump the Gus who have brought a lot of success like trash and think the next guy will automatically better is setting yourself up for a fall. Good thing Mark Murphy doesn't have your mentality.
"Aaron Rodgers is a baaaaaaad man" - Stephen A. Smith