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Author Topic: Baffling  (Read 10107 times)

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Offline Twain

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2016, 09:16:08 AM »
He didn't play Janis for the majority of the third quarter and the offense again stalled without him in. 


Interesting interpretation.

We had three series.  On the first one, after a first down on a 15 yard gain to Richard Rodgers, the drive ends on a poorly thrown ball that gets picked off.  That was a mental error by Aaron Rodgers on the third play of the series.

On the second drive, we went 81 yds for a touch down. 

Sure, on the third and last series of the quarter we punted. 

Hard to say the offense stalled in the third quarter.   We got 1/3 of our points and 1/4 of our yards in the third quarter.
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Offline cheech

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2016, 08:43:02 PM »
He didn't play Janis for the majority of the third quarter and the offense again stalled without him in. 


Interesting interpretation.

We had three series.  On the first one, after a first down on a 15 yard gain to Richard Rodgers, the drive ends on a poorly thrown ball that gets picked off.  That was a mental error by Aaron Rodgers on the third play of the series.

On the second drive, we went 81 yds for a touch down. 

Sure, on the third and last series of the quarter we punted. 

Hard to say the offense stalled in the third quarter.   We got 1/3 of our points and 1/4 of our yards in the third quarter.

Good lord.

Before Janis entered the game the Packers offense had 2 series and 6 yards. 

Cobb goes down, Janis comes in, and the offense has three drives of 75+ yards. 

After Janis scored his TD in the third quarter, MM went conservative with his 31 personnel and the offense stalled again with 28 yards in 3 series.

 In the final drive, Janis comes back in and we score again. 


Not rocket science, bud.

I'm right and everyone else does not have an opinion worth talking about.

Online Shinesman

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2016, 04:41:32 AM »
He didn't play Janis for the majority of the third quarter and the offense again stalled without him in. 


Interesting interpretation.

We had three series.  On the first one, after a first down on a 15 yard gain to Richard Rodgers, the drive ends on a poorly thrown ball that gets picked off.  That was a mental error by Aaron Rodgers on the third play of the series.

On the second drive, we went 81 yds for a touch down. 

Sure, on the third and last series of the quarter we punted. 

Hard to say the offense stalled in the third quarter.   We got 1/3 of our points and 1/4 of our yards in the third quarter.

Good lord.

Before Janis entered the game the Packers offense had 2 series and 6 yards. 

Cobb goes down, Janis comes in, and the offense has three drives of 75+ yards. 

After Janis scored his TD in the third quarter, MM went conservative with his 31 personnel and the offense stalled again with 28 yards in 3 series.

 In the final drive, Janis comes back in and we score again. 


Not rocket science, bud.

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Offline Twain

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2016, 08:13:28 AM »

Good lord.

Before Janis entered the game the Packers offense had 2 series and 6 yards. 

Cobb goes down, Janis comes in, and the offense has three drives of 75+ yards. 

After Janis scored his TD in the third quarter, MM went conservative with his 31 personnel and the offense stalled again with 28 yards in 3 series.

 In the final drive, Janis comes back in and we score again. 


Not rocket science, bud.

This will be my last comment in this thread.

This comment of yours points out what is wrong with your thread.  You were 100% correct that Janis sat out for most of the third quarter, so you can't give him credit for the offensive success that quarter.   

He was in for only one play, 3rd and goal from the Arizona 8.  He gets a touchdown off of a broken play where Rodgers scrambles and throws back hand to him.  Great, I get it , he had a productive game and is clearly better now than he was for the SanDiego game where he also got 40 snaps but only two catches on schoolyard plays.(Take a look at the coaches film of the SD game on NFL game rewind and tell me how many of those 1 on 1's Janis is winning.)  But even on the TD, if you watch Janis's rout, he took forever to get off the jam at the line, essentially taking him out of the play until it broke down.  Then they didn't score when Janis came back in.  They went 4 and out on his next series.

The point is this though:  McCarthy made a good choice to go with different personnel on the third quarter TD drive, which got them to the 8 yard line.  Had Lacy not slipped on the second play of the series, he would have gone a lot farther than 15 yds.  McCarthy correctly saw the weakness in the middle of the Arizona D, allowing an out of shape Lacy to go 76 yds in 2 plays.  Good calls by coach McCarthy.  Should he have shifted back after?  We will never know if that would have worked out better.  Part of the issue with the offensive production is the defense allowed the Cardinals to hold the ball for over 15 minutes on their next 3 drives.

Maybe I give McCarthy a pass as you imply, maybe I don't. I think he is too stubborn and sticks with his plan too long when its not working. However he does a better job than fans think he does. (Just look back at the comments about how he should give up the play calling at the end of the 2014 season).   The truth is, the WR's were not winning their 1 on 1's just like he said, and his over reliance on the hurry up offense is dependent on them winning the 1 on 1's. 

Rather than being angry that Janis didn't get more time earlier while waiting for him to develop, maybe we should be happy that he made progress and is showing promise.  Maybe McCarthy deserves some credit for staying with him despite needing time to develop.

It may not be rocket science, but its not as simple as some like to make it.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 09:09:53 AM by Twain »
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Offline cpk1994

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2016, 03:29:53 PM »
Good lord.

Before Janis entered the game the Packers offense had 2 series and 6 yards. 

Cobb goes down, Janis comes in, and the offense has three drives of 75+ yards. 

After Janis scored his TD in the third quarter, MM went conservative with his 31 personnel and the offense stalled again with 28 yards in 3 series.

 In the final drive, Janis comes back in and we score again. 


Not rocket science, bud.
Janis had 5 catches for 44 yards before the final drive not to mention you are making the absurd claim that Janis was the sole reason the offense was able to move the ball. Janis isn't the all-world stud you are trying to make him out to be and he wasn't the reason they were able to move the ball. You are being intellectually diishonest.

This will be my last comment in this thread.

This comment of yours points out what is wrong with your thread.  You were 100% correct that Janis sat out for most of the third quarter, so you can't give him credit for the offensive success that quarter.   

He was in for only one play, 3rd and goal from the Arizona 8.  He gets a touchdown off of a broken play where Rodgers scrambles and throws back hand to him.  Great, I get it , he had a productive game and is clearly better now than he was for the SanDiego game where he also got 40 snaps but only two catches on schoolyard plays.(Take a look at the coaches film of the SD game on NFL game rewind and tell me how many of those 1 on 1's Janis is winning.)  But even on the TD, if you watch Janis's rout, he took forever to get off the jam at the line, essentially taking him out of the play until it broke down.  Then they didn't score when Janis came back in.  They went 4 and out on his next series.

The point is this though:  McCarthy made a good choice to go with different personnel on the third quarter TD drive, which got them to the 8 yard line.  Had Lacy not slipped on the second play of the series, he would have gone a lot farther than 15 yds.  McCarthy correctly saw the weakness in the middle of the Arizona D, allowing an out of shape Lacy to go 76 yds in 2 plays.  Good calls by coach McCarthy.  Should he have shifted back after?  We will never know if that would have worked out better.  Part of the issue with the offensive production is the defense allowed the Cardinals to hold the ball for over 15 minutes on their next 3 drives.

Maybe I give McCarthy a pass as you imply, maybe I don't. I think he is too stubborn and sticks with his plan too long when its not working. However he does a better job than fans think he does. (Just look back at the comments about how he should give up the play calling at the end of the 2014 season).   The truth is, the WR's were not winning their 1 on 1's just like he said, and his over reliance on the hurry up offense is dependent on them winning the 1 on 1's. 

Rather than being angry that Janis didn't get more time earlier while waiting for him to develop, maybe we should be happy that he made progress and is showing promise.  Maybe McCarthy deserves some credit for staying with him despite needing time to develop.

It may not be rocket science, but its not as simple as some like to make it.
Now this is the more realistic and objective take over the absurd "The only moved the ball because of Janis" take.

I don't think you are giving MM a free pass. You are just explaining things as they happened. 
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 03:34:14 PM by cpk1994 »
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Offline cheech

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2016, 04:13:06 PM »
This will be my last post on this thread.  I promise.  :)

MM pissed and moaned that his receivers couldn't win 1 on 1 match-ups in the passing game but he refused to use Abby and Janis.  He complained that he didn't have a big receiving threat that could challenge safeties when he clearly did the entire season and just chose to ignore him. 

He did the same thing week-in and week-out.  I don't understand why he can't be held accountable for his actions.  Yes, Jordy was out all year.  So was the Panthers #1 WR.  Yes, the Packers had injuries on the OL.  So does every other team.  The master of all things offense wasn't able to make the necessary adjustments.  He needs to be able to shoulder some of the blame for that putrid offense. 
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Offline LMG

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2016, 04:58:49 PM »
 deadhorse)


Good grief!!


Abby was injured also for most of TC and the regular season....so.....


The reason he and Janis got into the late games at all was because they were all that was left and they were at the bottom of the depth chart.


Time for some of you to climb off off your high horses and move on from this regurgitating.
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Online Shinesman

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2016, 03:31:57 PM »
This will be my last post on this thread.  I promise.  :)

MM pissed and moaned that his receivers couldn't win 1 on 1 match-ups in the passing game but he refused to use Abby and Janis.  He complained that he didn't have a big receiving threat that could challenge safeties when he clearly did the entire season and just chose to ignore him. 

He did the same thing week-in and week-out.  I don't understand why he can't be held accountable for his actions.  Yes, Jordy was out all year.  So was the Panthers #1 WR.  Yes, the Packers had injuries on the OL.  So does every other team.  The master of all things offense wasn't able to make the necessary adjustments.  He needs to be able to shoulder some of the blame for that putrid offense.

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Offline Kepler

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2016, 04:48:11 PM »
The salt

Offline SB XLIX

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2016, 12:07:46 PM »
I took the whole interview as MM's not so subtle reminder to Ted that he needs some speed and talent at WR and TE.  We are, after all, in free agency and the draft is coming up.  GB has gone from Driver, Jennings, Nelson, Jones to Cobb, maybe Nelson, sort of Adams, possibly Montgomery and a couple of late round special teamers. 

Offline ricky

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2016, 05:55:29 PM »
Here's an excerpt from another Packers site that addressed the problems in the offense last year. The author effectively agrees- players, not plays.

"At first, the solution seemed to be contained within the scheme: if only McCarthy would take back play-calling and install more man-beater routes, the receivers would be more successful. But McCarthy did take over play-calling duties, and the Packers did step outside the box of their spread-based, isolation-route heavy scheme.

It didn't make a difference. The Packers tried crossing routes; they tried trips bunches; they tried stacking. Defenders almost always triumphed over Green Bay's receiving corps.

Very quickly it became apparent that the personnel, rather than the scheme, might have been the problem."

MM tried every way that cheech claimed they Packers didn't do. They did make the suggested changes. They didn't work. But, as LMG has already suggested, this is simply  deadhorse) Because trying to persuade someone who knows they're right that perhaps they should rethink their position is like  banghead
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Offline cpk1994

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2016, 07:37:28 PM »
Here's an excerpt from another Packers site that addressed the problems in the offense last year. The author effectively agrees- players, not plays.

"At first, the solution seemed to be contained within the scheme: if only McCarthy would take back play-calling and install more man-beater routes, the receivers would be more successful. But McCarthy did take over play-calling duties, and the Packers did step outside the box of their spread-based, isolation-route heavy scheme.

It didn't make a difference. The Packers tried crossing routes; they tried trips bunches; they tried stacking. Defenders almost always triumphed over Green Bay's receiving corps.

Very quickly it became apparent that the personnel, rather than the scheme, might have been the problem."

MM tried every way that cheech claimed they Packers didn't do. They did make the suggested changes. They didn't work. But, as LMG has already suggested, this is simply  deadhorse) Because trying to persuade someone who knows they're right that perhaps they should rethink their position is like  banghead
goodpost

That someone still thinks Janis would have opened up the offense despite 70+ snaps in the regular season in which he didn't. McCarthy didn't ignore Janis. Janis didn't do squat to earn staying on the field. He was not, and never was, the answer to the Packers problems last year.
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Offline DWhitehurst

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2016, 01:40:28 PM »
Whether or not Janis is "the answer" or could be in time, nevertheless the answer is that it would help to have a route/hands reliable deep threat. Not sure that such a WR is there in this years draft, so shore up the other areas of weakness (OL, Cook at TE, rejuvenated Lacy, etc.) and hope that Janis develops into something more reliable in terms of route running (his relatively small hands may always make it a challenge in catching the ball). Not sure what else they can do.

Offline claymaker

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2016, 12:41:13 AM »
The offense changed a lot last year. It was a domino effect.

Nelson, Adams, then Cobb for a good while, Lacy never got going, Starks is just a #2,

Teams had one guy to cover and it was a hobbled Randall Cobb. Every set of of downs was a struggle for them. At times they looked like the Cleveland Browns from a few years ago. They were just so freaking bad anybody could match up with them. The only weapon they had was Rodgers. They had no running game and their most consistent play was the one that would break down with nobody getting open downfield and Rodgers throwing the ball away.

It is baffling how bad they were and still managed to make the playoffs and almost beat the Cardinals.

Online Shinesman

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Re: Baffling
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2016, 01:58:09 AM »
Here's an excerpt from another Packers site that addressed the problems in the offense last year. The author effectively agrees- players, not plays.

"At first, the solution seemed to be contained within the scheme: if only McCarthy would take back play-calling and install more man-beater routes, the receivers would be more successful. But McCarthy did take over play-calling duties, and the Packers did step outside the box of their spread-based, isolation-route heavy scheme.

It didn't make a difference. The Packers tried crossing routes; they tried trips bunches; they tried stacking. Defenders almost always triumphed over Green Bay's receiving corps.

Very quickly it became apparent that the personnel, rather than the scheme, might have been the problem."

MM tried every way that cheech claimed they Packers didn't do. They did make the suggested changes. They didn't work. But, as LMG has already suggested, this is simply  deadhorse) Because trying to persuade someone who knows they're right that perhaps they should rethink their position is like  banghead
goodpost

That someone still thinks Janis would have opened up the offense despite 70+ snaps in the regular season in which he didn't. McCarthy didn't ignore Janis. Janis didn't do squat to earn staying on the field. He was not, and never was, the answer to the Packers problems last year.

How many of his snaps were running plays? Because the few games I watched, most of his snaps were on running plays and he was blocking his defender down the field. Lets not cherry pick or omit stats to fit our agenda now.
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