September 25, 2017, 07:21:10 PM

Author Topic: To Ye of little faith...  (Read 2568 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online B

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3950
To Ye of little faith...
« on: January 15, 2017, 07:14:07 PM »
Don't even think about crawling up on this wagon...
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline LMG

  • Administrator
  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4388
  • PackerChatters Site Owner
    • PackerChatters.com
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2017, 07:23:24 PM »
Don't even think about crawling up on this wagon...


Yup...could care less if we even see those so called 'fans' again!!


There is a big iifference between a 'critique' and a ' rant ' comment/post but some don' know that!!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 08:25:11 PM by LMG »
If you are not the lead dog the view never changes.

Online B

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3950
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2017, 08:01:47 PM »
Exactly Larry! I'm realistic and thoughtful critique is always welcome. Of course that is very different than the whiny negative Nells that only show your mouth off when the team is challenged to. Well they sure as hell showed up and answered the challenge today.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Online ricky

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4377
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2017, 08:43:00 PM »
So, where do we draw the line between being critical of poor play, and being a "real fan"?
 
Were there doubters? Of course. People are human, they can overreact, and sometimes, when a mob mentality occurs on a thread, it's as if posters try to outdo other posters in being pessimistic. This is also human. It would have been very, very difficult to stay optimistic after the first ten games. Some did, some didn't. But why not congratulate those who were consistently optimistic, rather than looking to punish those who doubted?

We're all in this together. The people who doubted know they were wrong. Why rub it in?
"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Online B

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3950
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2017, 08:46:01 PM »
So, where do we draw the line between being critical of poor play, and being a "real fan"?
 
Were there doubters? Of course. People are human, they can overreact, and sometimes, when a mob mentality occurs on a thread, it's as if posters try to outdo other posters in being pessimistic. This is also human. It would have been very, very difficult to stay optimistic after the first ten games. Some did, some didn't. But why not congratulate those who were consistently optimistic, rather than looking to punish those who doubted?

We're all in this together. The people who doubted know they were wrong. Why rub it in?

Guy's like you who were discouraged and pointing out what you thought was wrong are not the same as the negative Nells who only show up to mouth off when things are going poorly.

Besides, I would think anybody who is truly a fan would be delighted to be able to step up and say I was wrong.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 08:46:47 PM by B »
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline LMG

  • Administrator
  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4388
  • PackerChatters Site Owner
    • PackerChatters.com
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2017, 08:47:00 PM »
Nobody is 'rubbbing it in'.


It's just that these ranters kind of disapppear whe things are going good and they can't think of a reason to pound their keyboards with their rants.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 08:48:11 PM by LMG »
If you are not the lead dog the view never changes.

Online ricky

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4377
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2017, 09:28:10 PM »
Nobody is 'rubbbing it in'.


It's just that these ranters kind of disapppear whe things are going good and they can't think of a reason to pound their keyboards with their rants.

Definitely, there are those who only seem to show up when things go wrong. Then they disappear when things start going right. Then, there are those who want to argue for the sake of arguing. Or the posters who show up after the fact and point out how wrong everyone else was, while they never posted anything during the regular season. Annoying? Absolutely. And it has to be even more difficult for the mods, who are there to monitor the traffic and prevent excesses, who literally have to read every post, no matter how stupid or ill considered.

How do I deal with it? Some posters, when I see their name, my first thought is "I wonder what stupid thing (name of poster) has to say now?" Others have their own agendas, whether it's get rid of that coach, or that player is overpaid, or that player needs to be re-signed. It's predictable, so it's easy to kind of skip over some comments, and see if anyone else has a different, more interesting take.

The thing is, like the bad times during the season, they don't matter anymore. What matters is what happening now. So, to me, going back and saying only some people have earned the right to cheer on the team smacks of elitism. But then again, what do I know?

"My hopes are not always realized, but I always hope." Ovid

Offline LMG

  • Administrator
  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4388
  • PackerChatters Site Owner
    • PackerChatters.com
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2017, 10:16:37 PM »
Nobody is 'rubbbing it in'.


It's just that these ranters kind of disapppear whe things are going good and they can't think of a reason to pound their keyboards with their rants.

Definitely, there are those who only seem to show up when things go wrong. Then they disappear when things start going right. Then, there are those who want to argue for the sake of arguing. Or the posters who show up after the fact and point out how wrong everyone else was, while they never posted anything during the regular season. Annoying? Absolutely. And it has to be even more difficult for the mods, who are there to monitor the traffic and prevent excesses, who literally have to read every post, no matter how stupid or ill considered.

How do I deal with it? Some posters, when I see their name, my first thought is "I wonder what stupid thing (name of poster) has to say now?" Others have their own agendas, whether it's get rid of that coach, or that player is overpaid, or that player needs to be re-signed. It's predictable, so it's easy to kind of skip over some comments, and see if anyone else has a different, more interesting take.

The thing is, like the bad times during the season, they don't matter anymore. What matters is what happening now. So, to me, going back and saying only some people have earned the right to cheer on the team smacks of elitism. But then again, what do I know?


 goodpost
If you are not the lead dog the view never changes.

Online The GM

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2017, 10:24:59 AM »
Winning doesnt mask the torching of Capers defense again. 

Elliott -125 yards
Bryant - 9/132, 2 TDs.
Can't hold a 21-3 lead.

Great win, but I certainly hope Capers is carrying Rodgers luggage on this trip.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 10:26:18 AM by The GM »

Offline LMG

  • Administrator
  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4388
  • PackerChatters Site Owner
    • PackerChatters.com
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2017, 11:00:50 AM »
Winning doesnt mask the torching of Capers defense again. 

Elliott -125 yards
Bryant - 9/132, 2 TDs.
Can't hold a 21-3 lead.

Great win, but I certainly hope Capers is carrying Rodgers luggage on this trip.


Here are some things you should be aware of about the Cowboys;


Quote
13 wins 3 losses


NFL Rankings


PTS - 26.3 (5th)


YDS - 376.7 (5th)


PASS YDS - 226.9 (23rd)


RUSH YDS - 149.8 (2nd)


We could talk about how beat up our DB's are but we know injuries don't matter. Did you recognize the names of some of the subs that were pressed into action?
If you are not the lead dog the view never changes.

Offline cpk1994

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6299
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2017, 12:54:38 PM »
Winning doesnt mask the torching of Capers defense again. 

Elliott -125 yards
Bryant - 9/132, 2 TDs.
Can't hold a 21-3 lead.

Great win, but I certainly hope Capers is carrying Rodgers luggage on this trip.
Scoreboard is all that matters in the palyoffs. YOu can spout all your statistics all you want, but the only one that matter is whether they won or not. As I said in an aerlier thread, it doesn't matter how you get it done in the playoffs, just that you get it done. The team got it done. Period.
"Aaron Rodgers is a baaaaaaad man" - Stephen A. Smith

Online cheech

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3031
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2017, 01:49:24 PM »
Winning doesnt mask the torching of Capers defense again. 

Elliott -125 yards
Bryant - 9/132, 2 TDs.
Can't hold a 21-3 lead.

Great win, but I certainly hope Capers is carrying Rodgers luggage on this trip.
Scoreboard is all that matters in the palyoffs. YOu can spout all your statistics all you want, but the only one that matter is whether they won or not. As I said in an aerlier thread, it doesn't matter how you get it done in the playoffs, just that you get it done. The team got it done. Period.

Both arguments are flawed. 

Pointing to the scoreboard and ignoring the offense that we faced and the circumstances presented in the secondary are rather short-sighted.  Arguing that only the scoreboard matters is also ignoring the context of the entire game and areas that the defense can improve. 

What we've seen over the last few weeks, against some of the better QB's and offenses the league has to offer, is that our defense needs to play a 2 deep safety look in order to limit the passing game.  We're just too thin in the secondary to go crazy with any defensive schemes.  That isn't Capers' fault.  The result is a team that is going to give up more in the running game - especially when Joe Thomas is asked to take on a pulling guard or a FB as he was a few times last night.  He's just not built for that. 

The only beef I could find with the defensive game plan was playing nickel defense vs. 2 TE sets on 3-4 occasions (one resulted in a rather easy TD run), dropping Peppers into zone coverage and rushing 3 on third and 15 in the RZ, and not limiting a clearly limited Randall's snaps.  Outside of that, Dom did what he could with what he has.

In my opinion, the biggest blunder was playing Randall.  He's clearly still injured.  He can't drop his ass in his backpedal.  The result of playing too high shows up when he's slow to break on nearly everything thrown his way.  That, paired with confidence issues, makes him a player that you just need to sit until he's healthy again.  Hawkins had 15 snaps in the game and he was also beat on 2 plays, but at some point you have to just go with the guy that can compete more consistently. 


Now, it's pretty clear that I am one of "them" that you are referring to in this thread.  Honestly, if you're going to say something just say it.  Name the problem.  Call me out. 

This is what I'll maintain:
I called MM out when the offense was a mess.  I made suggestions on how to fix the offense.  It turned out that when he made those adjustments the offense turned around dramatically fast.  When things were at their worst - when we were 4-6 and we saw no signs of MM making adjustments, yeah, I was in favor of him being fired.  Had he not made those offensive adjustments we wouldn't be in the playoffs and I'd maintain that a change would be imperative.  Since I've given him credit for making those adjustments multiple times even if they were a long time coming. 

I called out Capers when he played almost exclusively zone coverage for a 3-4 game stretch this season.  I said that our DB's were better suited to play man.  Now we have even more injuries piling up, but we're seeing Gunter follow the #1 receiver with Hyde manning the slot and Randall in man coverage on the other side.  Our secondary is still the weak link, but that small adjustment on the back end has salvaged what was left of a depleted unit. 

I was against keeping Julius Peppers.  I admitted that he could still play but that he wasn't worth his 8 million per year.  Peppers has made some big plays this year.  He's also been invisible for incredibly long stretches - something that just can't happen when you're in the top 5 earners on a team.  Nick Perry turned in his best year yet - something I saw coming since the Washington playoff game last season.  Ted is still in a position to keep Perry, but he may easily lose out on Hyde, Lang, Lacy, D. Jones, etc. 

I was pissed about Ted cutting Sitton without an ounce of compensation.  I was flat out wrong on my analysis of who Taylor was as a player.  He's a hell of a lot better than he was this pre-season.  I'll admit that the move worked out swimmingly for Ted.  I still don't like the risk - Ted was awfully fortunate that Taylor and Lang stayed healthy and we didn't have to see stretches of Donny Barclay at OG which clearly would have been a disaster. 

I was also upset that Allison was cut over Davis.  While I was flat out wrong about Allison beating out Adams for our #3 spot (Adams is easily our #2) I feel justified in my analysis of Allison as a kid that runs great routes and has great hands.  His future is bright.  Davis, on the other hand, wasn't active for the last half of the season.  He was one of the few healthy scratches on the team week in and week out.  I'd love for him to become a player, but right now I just don't see it. 

I'm still in favor of switching to a 4-3 and playing Matthews inside.  I understand that he's still hurt, but its hard to deny that he's just not an elite player at OLB anymore.  I'd love to see him freed up to move around like he did last year instead of seeing him suffer through 2-3 more seasons at OLB.  I could still be dead wrong on this one. 

Like I said a month ago - I'll gladly admit when I'm wrong.  I'm just not wrong very often. 

« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 01:58:51 PM by cheech »
I'm right and everyone else does not have an opinion worth talking about.

Online B

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3950
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2017, 02:59:23 PM »
I'll gladly admit when I'm wrong.  I'm just not wrong very often.

::)
cheech, you sure are a legend in your own mind...

hysterical facepalm)
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Online cheech

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3031
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2017, 03:22:19 PM »
I'll gladly admit when I'm wrong.  I'm just not wrong very often.

::)
cheech, you sure are a legend in your own mind...

hysterical facepalm)

 hatsoff)
I'm right and everyone else does not have an opinion worth talking about.

Online Twain

  • HOF Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2958
Re: To Ye of little faith...
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2017, 03:37:14 PM »

Now, it's pretty clear that I am one of "them" that you are referring to in this thread.  Honestly, if you're going to say something just say it.  Name the problem.  Call me out. 

Like I said a month ago - I'll gladly admit when I'm wrong.  I'm just not wrong very often.

Cheech-

I have been sitting here trying to come up with a thoughtful response to your post, because I think you are a valuable and interesting poster. Some posters are just here to argue, but I don't sense that in your posts.  Feel free to ignore this post if you are here to just argue.

I feel however that you do yourself a disservice by this notion that you aren't wrong very often.  After all, most of this board is opinion, and often based on pretty nebulous facts as none of us, for instance, know what a player's assignment is when we watch games, let alone what their true injury status is or what is going on behind the scenes in the organization.  As opinions there is often no right or wrong, just a differing perspective.

A better way to say it is that you are frequently right, which you are.  You are wrong at times as well, as we all are.  So why the feigned hubris?

Even in your answer there are points that are not really all that accurate.  For instance, you say that Ted was lucky with the health of Lang and Taylor because Barclay would have been disaster, but Lang wasn't healthy and missed games- it wasn't Barclay- it was Jason Spriggs - and it wasn't disaster as he did ok and was playing when we won the first game of the streak.  I get it, at the time the decision was made, it was reasonable to have those concerns.  I think in retrospect though, it sure looks like Thompson had more information than we did.

That is one example.  It isn't important though. 

What is important is that if you make the claim that you are right because "you actually watch the game" which implies that no one else does, or condescendingly refer to posters as "Bud" as though they just aren't very smart, you lose the respect of the other posters.  Then they don't listen to you, and they might even take shots later.

Some of the stuff you post, such as the analysis of the 4-3 under a few years back, makes for great reading. 

I would encourage you to put your ideas out with less emphasis on being right, and be open to discussions of different opinions.  I think it would improve your efficacy of getting your points across and make for much better reading. 

"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."