November 19, 2017, 10:01:02 PM

Author Topic: Defense Better in 2017 ?  (Read 3698 times)

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Offline Redt

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Defense Better in 2017 ?
« on: August 03, 2017, 08:03:15 PM »
A couple things have me worried that the defense will be the same or maybe worse than last year.

1. D. House is our #1 CB: If my memory serves me right, House was at his best average while with the Packers and the Packers knew it and let him leave in FA. Now he comes back and suddenly is our best option for #1 CB, yikes. I am hoping King makes quick progress and Rollins, Randall, Gunter, and House compete hard and may the best performers receive the most playing time.

2. I have no idea where the pressure is going to come from. CMIII is just not the pass rusher he once was.  Perry is solid when healthy, but that remains a big question mark? After that? Elliot, hopefully good for some snaps, Beigel, even when healthy would be a huge leap, Fackrell, doubt it.

3. Hoping J. Jones wins the S/ILB job from Burnett if he proves to be more explosive and fit for the job. I may be in the minority here, but Burnett has never done it for me. Burnett is a big cap hit this year and a UFA next, he will receive plenty of PT this year, but where, and most likely not resigned in 2018.

4. D-line, K. Clark needs to make a huge leap, not hearing much about Ricky-Jean, Daniels needs help.

OK fellas, tell me why I should reconsider my  gloomy forecast.

Online scoremore

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2017, 08:39:56 PM »
If they stay healthy they will be improved.  That's a big if though.  D line is solid.  Starting LB's are decent.  CB's will surprise.  Safety is the strongest position.  All in all would expect them to be at least a middle of the pack D.  Injuries ravaged us last year.  If healthy they should be good enough for a Championship run.  Also some young guys may take a jump.  Expecting Elliot, Lowry, Randall, Rollins, CM3, Clark all to play better this year.  Health is the key.  Health health health...

Online The GM

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2017, 08:58:04 PM »
No worries, we have defensive genius Dom Capers.

Offline iarwain

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2017, 10:22:47 PM »
I didn't know House was our #1 cornerback, is that correct?  If so, that's a concern, even though I'm glad he's back to help lend a hand.  I think our secondary should be improved over last year.  Randall and Rollins should be healthier than last year, and hopefully will have learned a few things.  King should be a beast, although how long he will take to get there is a question.

So the secondary should be better (couldn't be any worse) but the pass rush looks a little thin (and if there are injuries could be disastrous), so I'm thinking it's probably a wash.  Probably about the same as last year or slightly improved.

Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2017, 03:18:02 AM »
Expect better defending in the middle of the field (addition of J.Jones + Ryan and Martinez have an extra year of experience). Corner can hardly be worse than last year, plus Randall & Rollins are now healthy and (mostly) playing slot corner which suits them both (though Rollins looked ok outside as well), two new corners outside in House and King. Pass rush might be a little worse this year if you just considered the linebackers, but look out for the blitzing DBs ! I have high hopes of the D line with Clark, Daniels, Lowry and Adams when he recovers from the foot injury.

In conclusion: Pass rush worse (linebackers), but a better d line and blitzing DBs make this almost a wash. Better corner play. Better pass defense over the middle. Maybe slightly worse between the tackles run defense if caught in pass pro (but those safeties can lay the wood), decent if in the right formation. Run defense to Matthews side not so good, but fine Perry's side. Also, an advantage to the D because the Packers offense should be more potent, tending to force the opponents offense to play more pass to keep up.
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2017, 07:41:12 AM »
I still think they will spend more time in the base 3-4 because of the strength of the DL group. This will allow them to be stronger against the run and will allow DC to utilize his fire zone blitz packages in ways he has not been able to do in years past.

Burnett/Jones will bring a new dynamic to the middle of the field.

House is best in man/press coverage, and King will thrive in that role as well. Surprisingly, Rollins has taken a major step forward from what I have read, and I have been glad to hear about that.

This may end up not being a top 10 defense, but if it's in the mid-teens ranking, it should be an improved group and could surprise.

Online Twain

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2017, 08:18:49 AM »
I think Danno will be correct on this one.  It may not be an elite defense but I believe it may be good enough.  3-3-5 may be the new nickel.  This should help the run game, and add more deception/uncertainty for offenses regarding the pass rush.  Burnett/Jones should hold up well in the box in that type of package.

Also, I think the rumors of Clay Matthews demise are premature.  Improve the back end of the defense and that extra half second that the QB holds the ball will yield a big payoff.

I don't buy Dougherty's commentary of needing pass rush from Clark.  He was drafted as a quality 2 gap anchor for the DL, and RJF is the same kind of guy.  All they really need to do is stuff the run and push the pocket so that the QB can't step up, and force the defense to leave the edge guys one on one.

King didn't look good last night, but working against a healthy Jordy Nelson getting the ball from Aaron Rodgers is what he needs.  4 weeks of a healthy Nelson and Adams to cover will get him ready.  The key to getting better- getting a defensive backfield that can slow the ball coming out so that the pass rush has a chance.
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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2017, 09:53:18 AM »
If we can stay relatively healthy or at least healthier than last season we should be okay.  Look how far we went with that mess at corner last year?  I thought I read House played well in Jax until they changed their scheme last season?

Online Gregg

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2017, 07:02:44 PM »
This is a big question mark I think for more than one reason.

1.) How fast until King starts?

2.) Can House be a number one?

3.) Has CM 3 hit the down slope?

4.)  What kind of a pass rush will we have?

5.) Who are our ILB's?  Can they cover?

Offline iarwain

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2017, 10:56:45 PM »
Even if you're optimistic about the defense this year, given the results of the last six seasons, I would wait until the defense proves itself before I get too excited.  There are a lot of question marks.  Personally, I think it will take another good offseason to put it where it needs to be.  At that's probably best case scenario.

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2017, 07:29:18 AM »
http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/corys-corner-packers-hybrid-defense-is-perfect-507

Quote
“I think it’s just the fact that we have that versatility to bring guys like Morgan (Burnett) and guys into the box that can play that linebacker/hybrid role,” said outside linebacker Clay Matthews. “Which just allows us to have more DBs on the field, which is where this league is going.”

And the reason this league is going that way is because of what happened in 11 games last year. There were seven receiving touchdowns scored by running backs in the postseason alone. And that number could’ve been higher given how many times the Patriots and Falcons split their running backs out wide.

No matter how much you’re married to the old system, defensive coordinator Dom Capers didn’t have a choice. The inside linebackers were getting torched by speedy, versatile running backs. And when the opposing quarterback saw that a linebacker was on their shifty speedster, they kept attacking it — which is why James White became a household name after New England’s improbable Super Bowl win.

Offline RT

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2017, 08:13:46 AM »
http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/corys-corner-packers-hybrid-defense-is-perfect-507

Quote
“I think it’s just the fact that we have that versatility to bring guys like Morgan (Burnett) and guys into the box that can play that linebacker/hybrid role,” said outside linebacker Clay Matthews. “Which just allows us to have more DBs on the field, which is where this league is going.”

And the reason this league is going that way is because of what happened in 11 games last year. There were seven receiving touchdowns scored by running backs in the postseason alone. And that number could’ve been higher given how many times the Patriots and Falcons split their running backs out wide.

No matter how much you’re married to the old system, defensive coordinator Dom Capers didn’t have a choice. The inside linebackers were getting torched by speedy, versatile running backs. And when the opposing quarterback saw that a linebacker was on their shifty speedster, they kept attacking it — which is why James White became a household name after New England’s improbable Super Bowl win.

Could it be that the whole machine is not broken, but just a part needed replacing.

“You're never as good as you think you are when you win; and you're never as bad as you feel when you lose.” - Joe Paterno

The defense is not that bad folks!

Offline dannobanano

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2017, 10:37:28 AM »
http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/corys-corner-packers-hybrid-defense-is-perfect-507

Quote
“I think it’s just the fact that we have that versatility to bring guys like Morgan (Burnett) and guys into the box that can play that linebacker/hybrid role,” said outside linebacker Clay Matthews. “Which just allows us to have more DBs on the field, which is where this league is going.”

And the reason this league is going that way is because of what happened in 11 games last year. There were seven receiving touchdowns scored by running backs in the postseason alone. And that number could’ve been higher given how many times the Patriots and Falcons split their running backs out wide.

No matter how much you’re married to the old system, defensive coordinator Dom Capers didn’t have a choice. The inside linebackers were getting torched by speedy, versatile running backs. And when the opposing quarterback saw that a linebacker was on their shifty speedster, they kept attacking it — which is why James White became a household name after New England’s improbable Super Bowl win.

Could it be that the whole machine is not broken, but just a part needed replacing.

“You're never as good as you think you are when you win; and you're never as bad as you feel when you lose.” - Joe Paterno

The defense is not that bad folks!

It's a copy cat league, and when a team finds a formula that works other teams will begin to copy it.

Safety/ILB hybrids like Burnett/Jones are becoming more of a norm in the middle to combat speedy/shifty WR and "Move" TE's.

AZ kind of started this hybrid movement with Bucannon, and other teams have begun to copy it with using players like Sua' Cravens, Mark Barrons, and Kam Chancellor in a similar fashion.

I don't think DC's defense is "broken" but what I see is, like other teams, DC is adapting his defense to offensive trends.

What this adapting might do is severely limit the traditional ILB role for guys like Ryan, Martinez, and JT.

Preseason should shed more light on this.

Online cheech

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2017, 11:03:02 AM »
Ryan was a big part of our run defense last year.  He, unlike so many before him not named Desmond Bishop and Clay Matthews, was able to diagnose a run and shoot down the line or into gaps to make tackles at OR behind the LOS.  He also is able to take on OL.  I hope they don't completely phase him out because he could be as good as Bishop if given the snaps.
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Online cheech

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2017, 11:16:03 AM »
http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/corys-corner-packers-hybrid-defense-is-perfect-507

Quote
“I think it’s just the fact that we have that versatility to bring guys like Morgan (Burnett) and guys into the box that can play that linebacker/hybrid role,” said outside linebacker Clay Matthews. “Which just allows us to have more DBs on the field, which is where this league is going.”

And the reason this league is going that way is because of what happened in 11 games last year. There were seven receiving touchdowns scored by running backs in the postseason alone. And that number could’ve been higher given how many times the Patriots and Falcons split their running backs out wide.

No matter how much you’re married to the old system, defensive coordinator Dom Capers didn’t have a choice. The inside linebackers were getting torched by speedy, versatile running backs. And when the opposing quarterback saw that a linebacker was on their shifty speedster, they kept attacking it — which is why James White became a household name after New England’s improbable Super Bowl win.

Could it be that the whole machine is not broken, but just a part needed replacing.

“You're never as good as you think you are when you win; and you're never as bad as you feel when you lose.” - Joe Paterno

The defense is not that bad folks!

They are what they are until they prove that they are better.

I really like the athletic ability in our secondary.  If they can run, hit, and cover as well as we all hope, they could be fun to watch.  It isn't like we have Mark Roman and Bigby in the secondary anymore.  The talent is there.  If they can turn the ball over at a higher rate, they could be very good. 

2010 was really the only "shut you down" defense we've seen under Capers.  Man were they good.  They carried the offense for the first half of that season.  (I think that probably had it's start in 2009 too... before the offense took off.) 

Since then our D has thrived when we could turn the ball over to Rodgers and get a quick 14 or 21 point lead.  After that teams were forced to pass and Capers pulled out his exotic blitzes to make life hell for QB's that had to claw themselves back into the game. 

Our offense since come back down to earth and our defense hasn't been nearly as good at turning the ball over.  Credit that to faster offensive play that limits defensive substitutions. 

I think as long as we have DC, our defense will rely on our offense to create points.  We may see some really good quarters of football (Seattle, 2015) where the defense looks great.  I don't think we'll see an entire year of stout defense though.
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