November 20, 2017, 03:27:52 AM

Author Topic: Defense Better in 2017 ?  (Read 3703 times)

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Offline Toddfather

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2017, 02:52:00 PM »
We have added athleticism to this team, and more speed. I think they will be better. I really like our D-line and our safeties. They still have to go out there and prove it, but I haven't felt as good about a starting defense in a long time.

Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2017, 03:06:37 PM »
The emphasis on drafting defense early should have peaked by now, but I think we will find it hasn't.

I think there will be an early pick (1st or 2nd) spent on a quality WR (always assuming decent value is there). Beyond that, its back to the D. A pass rushing OLB is a likely early-pick target. Another high quality CB is also very possible. So is another safety if Burnett is not in the Packers plans for another contract.
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Offline SSG

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2017, 03:12:36 PM »
I've got my doubts.  I think our defensive success is going to come down to the pass rush and we lost a substantial amount of talent at OLB  and we failed badly at replacing it.  While we've got quality starters you will struggle to find a pair in the NFL that is as injury prone as Perry and CM3.  Perry has yet to play an entire NFL season and has had a significant injury in almost every year of his playing career.  CM3 doesn't look like even a shell of his former self.  Behind them we've got 6 career NFL sacks in 58 career game.  IMO If we've got to bring multiple blitzers on every down just to get pressure its going to be a very long season for our defense.  We've got to find a way to get pressure without having to sell out with the blitz. 
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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2017, 06:59:25 PM »
I've got my doubts.  I think our defensive success is going to come down to the pass rush and we lost a substantial amount of talent at OLB  and we failed badly at replacing it.  While we've got quality starters you will struggle to find a pair in the NFL that is as injury prone as Perry and CM3.  Perry has yet to play an entire NFL season and has had a significant injury in almost every year of his playing career.  CM3 doesn't look like even a shell of his former self.  Behind them we've got 6 career NFL sacks in 58 career game.  IMO If we've got to bring multiple blitzers on every down just to get pressure its going to be a very long season for our defense.  We've got to find a way to get pressure without having to sell out with the blitz.

While it still needs to be proven, I think the Packers can replace the loss of pass rushing talent at OLB with emerging pass rushing talent on the DL.

I think it's possible for both Clark and Lowry to emerge as solid pass rushers to pair up with Daniels. Plus, if Adams can get healthy by the 4-5 game of the season, he could add to this potential. But this would also require remaining in 3-4 a greater % of the time.

If this holds true,  the pressure on the QB will come from the inside and could force QB's out of the pocket and into the waiting grasp of OLB's. It will not require OLB's to "get home" and create the pressure and make the sack on a consistent basis. QB's will not be able to step up in the pocket to avoid the outside pressure from OLB's as they have in the past, and with great success.

Add in the potential for Burnett/Jones to be coming from inside spots and it could be an effective pass rush despite losing OLB talent to FA.

Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2017, 07:06:16 PM »
I think the DBs will get home a few times this year as well.
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Offline Twain

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2017, 07:30:01 PM »
I am hoping by training safeties to come down into the box as ILB's, that will allow Capers to put more creative sets in front of them in order to confuse the OL blocking schemes.  I have felt that in recent years, the 2-4-5 that was used the majority of snaps, and there was no disguising where the rush was coming from.

More creative sets in that front 5 could help out pass rush production a lot.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 07:30:43 PM by Twain »
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Offline LMG

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2017, 07:38:51 PM »
Me thinks with healthy DB's again and the addition of King Capers and staff will be able to get Burnett up on the line more creating more havoc on opposing offenses.
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Online tied2thetracks78

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2017, 09:08:38 PM »
....and House id out with a hamstring.

Offline Pugger

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2017, 08:33:25 AM »

I think it might be a tad premature to declare our defense will not be any better before a preseason game is played.

I agree Pugger.

Take the CB's for instance- If they can stay healthy, they will undoubtably be better.  For argument purposes, if you accept the notion that Randall is a bust, replacing him with House will be an upgrade. 

Count me as someone who had written off Rollins on the outside, but I have to admit, he looks much better so far.  He looks more focused and aggressive- squaring up and getting his hands on the receiver controlling his release.  He certainly bears watching to see if he can continue it when games start.

I agree that King doesn't look that good right now- Cobb turned him the wrong way on a simple breaking route, and Nelson schooled him earlier in the week, but it is a long season and he has time to keep working and get into his technique more.

I don't know that we have a guy on the roster that can go with Julio Jones, but if we have guys that can go one-on-one with their second and third option then we can double Jones and have a reasonable chance of slowing Atlanta enough to stay with them and beat them.

I am looking forward to this season.  If the team can stay healthy, they could be very good.

I doubt any team has a guy that can go with Julio Jones.  Jones is a beast and a freak.   :o

Offline pacman5252

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2017, 09:34:00 AM »
The D should definitely be improved a bit from last year;

Secondary- I hate to blame injuries, but there were games we didn't have our 3 top corners (shields, randall, Rollins) and one starting safety Burnett. That is just bad luck. While we won't have Shields and Burnett really is 4 missed games waiting to happen, between adding House, King, and Jones, and just having mediocre injury luck, I think we'll be fine. Gunter will never get above 4th corner this year instead of #1 this year.

DL- Kind of bummed Adams is hurt and Guion is missing time (might not be on the team after week 4), I'm kind of optimistic. Lowry and Clark should make year 2 jumps, Daniels is a stud, and we have some depth. This isn't a pro bowl group, but a really solid group that should be better

LBs- Little worried here. I don't think we got worse, but I don't think we really improved....Losing Peppers kind of sucks for pass rush (like it or not, he was our second best pass rusher and would have been nice for 30 snaps a game).... We need to pray Perry stays healthy, Clay bounces back (he  was hurt last year), and we get quality minutes and like 12 sacks between Elliot Fackrell, and Biegel... I will say I'm excited for Jake Ryan to keep improving and like the idea of Jones/Burnett playing  the Matheiu LB position in passing downs.

But yeah, I think we can go from abysmal to middle of the pack, which with our offense, could be a super  bowl team.

Offline Shanedorf

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2017, 10:36:01 AM »
The D should definitely be improved a bit from last year;

LBs- Little worried here. I don't think we got worse, but I don't think we really improved....Losing Peppers kind of sucks for pass rush (like it or not, he was our second best pass rusher and would have been nice for 30 snaps a game)....

The issue with Peppers is that he is "better" than the young guys in September of 2017. But in November-February he really isn't. His play declines late in the season, while the young guys should improve - by playing. When you add the time dimension to it, the decision to move on from Julius makes more sense. The Packers want young ascending legs at the end of the season and Peppers can't provide that anymore. This is what they saw on film and this is part of why GB went with the youth movement at OLB.

Its tough on the fans ( myself included) but we have to trust the process, the team philosophy and the accuracy of the film review from the guys at 1265 Lombardi Ave.


Offline pacman5252

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2017, 11:10:25 AM »
The D should definitely be improved a bit from last year;

LBs- Little worried here. I don't think we got worse, but I don't think we really improved....Losing Peppers kind of sucks for pass rush (like it or not, he was our second best pass rusher and would have been nice for 30 snaps a game)....

The issue with Peppers is that he is "better" than the young guys in September of 2017. But in November-February he really isn't. His play declines late in the season, while the young guys should improve - by playing. When you add the time dimension to it, the decision to move on from Julius makes more sense. The Packers want young ascending legs at the end of the season and Peppers can't provide that anymore. This is what they saw on film and this is part of why GB went with the youth movement at OLB.

Its tough on the fans ( myself included) but we have to trust the process, the team philosophy and the accuracy of the film review from the guys at 1265 Lombardi Ave.

I'd feel more comfortable trusting the process if we had a some guys that had shown a little more in college or had a little higher  upside. Right now, we have a bunch of 4th+ rounders for depth. I mean Fackrell showed nothing last year. Elliot has made a couple plays in 2 years, but hasn't done a ton. Then we are to an injured Vince Biegel and a bunch of UDFAs... There is real cause for concern here.

Peppers did half his sacks last year in November/December. He was actually pretty consistent throughout the year as a situational player. I'm with you on him not being as effective today, but I really don't have faith in the young guys this year and think our rush could be ugly. Hopefully Clark and Lowry improve enough to offset  our  deficiency

Offline craig

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2017, 11:38:45 AM »
...But yeah, I think we can go from abysmal to middle of the pack, which with our offense, could be a super  bowl team.

I think that's a good perspective. 

Offline Twain

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2017, 11:40:58 AM »
I get where people are coming from on Fackrell, but keep in mind in 2016, he had one sack for every 80 snaps.  Matthews had one for every 92 snaps, Peppers one in 78.

Moreover, the pass rush consisted of Fackrell, Elliot, Clark, and Daniels.  He didn't have the benefit of having any of the big names on the field with him at the time.

Sometimes where you sit on a depth chart has a lot to do with who else is on your team, and not totally on ability.

He may be better than we think.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 11:57:40 AM by Twain »
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Offline Shanedorf

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2017, 12:09:59 PM »
I'd feel more comfortable trusting the process if we had a some guys that had shown a little more in college or had a little higher  upside. Right now, we have a bunch of 4th+ rounders for depth. I mean Fackrell showed nothing last year. Elliot has made a couple plays in 2 years, but hasn't done a ton. Then we are to an injured Vince Biegel and a bunch of UDFAs... There is real cause for concern here.

Peppers did half his sacks last year in November/December. He was actually pretty consistent throughout the year as a situational player. I'm with you on him not being as effective today, but I really don't have faith in the young guys this year and think our rush could be ugly. Hopefully Clark and Lowry improve enough to offset  our  deficiency

I'd push back on the comment that Fackrell showed nothing - he showed enough to the front office to make them comfortable in not bringing back Peppers/Jones.
And as Twain noted, Fackrell may be better than WE think.
That's trusting the process and I'm not sure what alternatives we really have. I wouldn't want any of us in charge, so let's go with the guys the Packers have assembled in that front office... :)

"Mike Daniels is an undersized 4th rounder who has no real role in a 3-4 defense and we're gonna get gashed".

That's an actual quote from a fan who wasn't happy with Daniels as a draft pick. He was only a 4th rounder after all
That fan didn't trust a front office that's been right more than wrong and delivered a winning franchise for 2 + decades of football. If the Packers were the browns, I could understand the distrust... but they've done a heck of a job stocking this team. Others may feel differently.

And one more note on the pass rush: The time-to-throw in the NFL has consistently gotten shorter and shorter over the last several seasons, dropping from 3 seconds - to- throw down to barely over 2 seconds before the ball comes out. Pass rushing might be taking a slightly lesser role to Coverage in the modern NFL - and where did the Packers invest their offseason resources ? Coverage. Ya still need both, but as the cat and mouse continues, teams adjust.
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