September 26, 2017, 07:59:31 AM

Author Topic: Overall Roster Impressions  (Read 4330 times)

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Offline cheech

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2017, 09:06:41 AM »
Ted is still working on the DL.  If he does get Dial and releases Ringo or puts Adams on the IR, then we're in much better shape on the DL.  The addition of Odom *should* solidify our edge defense as long as long as he plays. 

We're thin on the OL.  Tretter was a starting-caliber C/G who was our 6th guy.  We had 2 of the best guards in the league in front of him.  Evans was a great pick-up given the options on the market, but he's a huge step down from Lang.  We'll feel that in the running game and with our screens.  We don't have anyone who can really get out front.  Taylor really struggled there and that isn't Linsley's strength either.  Barclay as a backup the last few years had its ups and downs.  The lack of development from Spriggs and Murphy hurts the most.  We just can't afford injuries anywhere along the offensive line.

In terms of back-up guys that could/should be future starters, our young safeties are really the only group that falls into that category. We do have role players at other positions who can play some snaps, but I still don't see any impact players.  I'd love to see an electric 3rd down back, a serious deep threat at WR, a stretch TE who can run the seam, a 3rd down pass rusher who can turn the corner. 

Aaron Jones has a nice third gear, but he seems to only find it in wide open space.  It looks like it takes him 10 yards to really find his speed.  Same with Davis.  If he's untouched, he can run past people.  Richard Rodgers is not a threat up the seam.  I love Monty and Kendricks, but neither are they. 
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Offline phanatic1

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2017, 09:07:19 AM »
Does everyone think that both Patrick and McCray are going to make it until Sunday?  TT has to be looking for someone out there that could come in and replace one of them doesn't he?  An injury on the OL Sunday is going to be a recipe for disaster.  With Seattle's front 7 - if any of our starters go down - it will significantly impact the game.  The idea of quantity vs. quality just doesn't play well for me with the OL.  There isn't one of the backup OL that appears ready to step in. 

The signing of Brooks is a solid one.  He will bring something this team doesn't have a lot of and that is toughness.  Daniels is obviously the leader there and Brooks will bring the same mentality.  Actually, I think we will see a lot of Perry, Mathews and Brooks on the field at the same time. 

I think signing Dial will be the end of Ringo.  Dial is a big dude who is solid, but not spectacular.  He can pretty much play any spot.  He should be signed.

Breakout players this year?  Josh Jones on defense will make plays all over the field and Lane Taylor will be named to the Pro-Bowl. 

Offline Twain

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2017, 09:17:11 AM »
Not sure on Dial.

He has the prototypical 3-4 body, but was not the same player last year that he was in 2015.  He took a huge step back.  Was it complacency after getting the extension?  Was it from all the turmoil on the 49ers killing motivation?   It is interesting that in week one, while Kaepernick was protesting during the national anthem, Dial was out with the volunteers helping to hold the flag so there might have been conflict in the locker room affecting his performance.   Who knows.

He isn't a guarantee to be better than Ringo.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 09:22:56 AM by Twain »
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Online craig

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2017, 09:17:39 AM »
I think Lucas and McCray will make it to Sunday, yes. 

Offline Twain

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2017, 09:21:54 AM »

We're thin on the OL.  Tretter was a starting-caliber C/G who was our 6th guy.  We had 2 of the best guards in the league in front of him.  Evans was a great pick-up given the options on the market, but he's a huge step down from Lang.  We'll feel that in the running game and with our screens.  We don't have anyone who can really get out front.  Taylor really struggled there and that isn't Linsley's strength either.  Barclay as a backup the last few years had its ups and downs.  The lack of development from Spriggs and Murphy hurts the most.  We just can't afford injuries anywhere along the offensive line.

Tretter may have been our 6th guy, but last year he was our starting center because Linsley was PUP to start the year.  There were issues on the OL last year as well.

I get the loyalty for Lang, but Evans a huge step down?  You are entitled to your opinion, but I think you are overly negative on that one.

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Offline cheech

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2017, 09:22:30 AM »

Every competitive team has 4 good receivers.  Many teams have a better starting group than we do.  Allison is not the best #4 in the league just because he wears G and G.

Advanced statistical analytics from FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS paints a very different picture...

2016 Rankings of WR's with 50 or more receptions:

#3 Jordy Nelson,
#14 D.  Adams,
#39 R. Cobb...

2016 Rankings of WR's with 49 or less receptions:

#14 G. Allison...

Everything I saw demonstrated Allison to be greatly improved from his rookie season where he ranked 14th... (in a 32 team league)

Davis also looks light years improved from his rookie season...
Janis and Davis as #5&6 receivers are way better and worthy than just being blown off as "just" special teamers...

While I thought you did a nice job on parts of your write up Cheech, I think you're under-hyping our wide receivers.

This is completely possible.  It is also possible that we have a QB that makes our guys look better than other teams as well, right?  Quite simply, if you look around the league it isn't hard to find equally impressive receiving groups as GB.  Minnesota and Detroit just in our division alone have 2-3 guys each that are legit.  (Golladay from the Lions has a ton of buzz surrounding him.)  Seattle, Atlanta, Pitt, NE... There are a lot of teams that compare favorably with the Pack. 

I think I probably underrate our guys just a bit because I also don't see a starting WR who is a true deep threat that can take the top off of a defense.  We have a group with good hands, but we don't have an abundance of speed. 
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Offline cheech

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2017, 09:24:13 AM »

We're thin on the OL.  Tretter was a starting-caliber C/G who was our 6th guy.  We had 2 of the best guards in the league in front of him.  Evans was a great pick-up given the options on the market, but he's a huge step down from Lang.  We'll feel that in the running game and with our screens.  We don't have anyone who can really get out front.  Taylor really struggled there and that isn't Linsley's strength either.  Barclay as a backup the last few years had its ups and downs.  The lack of development from Spriggs and Murphy hurts the most.  We just can't afford injuries anywhere along the offensive line.

Tretter may have been our 6th guy, but last year he was our starting center because Linsley was PUP to start the year.  There were issues on the OL last year as well.

I get the loyalty for Lang, but Evans a huge step down?  You are entitled to your opinion, but I think you are overly negative on that one.

Lang is a top 5 OG in the league.  Probably top 3.  Evans is good in a box, but he just can't compare with Lang in space.  Lang is a complete stud on screens, in pass pro, and in the running game.  Evans isn't going to give us anything close to what Lang did. 
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Offline Leader

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2017, 09:26:24 AM »
If our biggest weakness is depth on the O line and OLB - and Ted is still trying to bolster the pass rush - I'd say we are in pretty good shape. 

Exactly right. Short. Succinct. Right on target. The *backup* OL is the major concern and its being worked on.
It's waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too early to claim 2nd year guys that dont appear to have jumped high enough quite yet are a washout and the "system" has failed. Way too early and way too hyper-critical. It takes time.

Btw - good post B. Hope we'll see more of your reasoned thoughts this year.

Offline cheech

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2017, 09:26:38 AM »
Not sure on Dial.

He has the prototypical 3-4 body, but was not the same player last year that he was in 2015.  He took a huge step back.  Was it complacency after getting the extension?  Was it from all the turmoil on the 49ers killing motivation?   It is interesting that in week one, while Kaepernick was protesting during the national anthem, Dial was out with the volunteers helping to hold the flag so there might have been conflict in the locker room affecting his performance.   Who knows.

He isn't a guarantee to be better than Ringo.

Really? 

Man, I think you value guys that wear green more than I do.  Ringo has a lot to prove vs. starting caliber OL.  When he had his chance this PS, he was invisible.   Dial doesn't have the inside rush that Ringo *could* possess, but he's a step up from Ringo and RJF in run defense. 
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Offline Twain

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2017, 09:27:17 AM »

This is completely possible.  It is also possible that we have a QB that makes our guys look better than other teams as well, right?  Quite simply, if you look around the league it isn't hard to find equally impressive receiving groups as GB.  Minnesota and Detroit just in our division alone have 2-3 guys each that are legit.  (Golladay from the Lions has a ton of buzz surrounding him.)  Seattle, Atlanta, Pitt, NE... There are a lot of teams that compare favorably with the Pack. 

I think I probably underrate our guys just a bit because I also don't see a starting WR who is a true deep threat that can take the top off of a defense.  We have a group with good hands, but we don't have an abundance of speed.

Cheech, man, cheer up!

Aaron Rodgers to Jordy Nelson has been one of the great deep threat duos in the league.  You aren't giving Jordy enough credit.  Go back and watch Jordy escape from Revis island a few years ago.
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Offline Twain

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2017, 09:30:33 AM »
Not sure on Dial.

He has the prototypical 3-4 body, but was not the same player last year that he was in 2015.  He took a huge step back.  Was it complacency after getting the extension?  Was it from all the turmoil on the 49ers killing motivation?   It is interesting that in week one, while Kaepernick was protesting during the national anthem, Dial was out with the volunteers helping to hold the flag so there might have been conflict in the locker room affecting his performance.   Who knows.

He isn't a guarantee to be better than Ringo.

Really? 

Man, I think you value guys that wear green more than I do.  Ringo has a lot to prove vs. starting caliber OL.  When he had his chance this PS, he was invisible.   Dial doesn't have the inside rush that Ringo *could* possess, but he's a step up from Ringo and RJF in run defense.

Go back and watch the games from 2016.  I did last night.

Ringo isn't the point- Dial's poor play in 2016 is.  He was a pretty fair player in 2015, but not good last year.  it is a question of which player you are getting.  Thinking he is automatically better than Ringo is a questionable thought.  He might be, he might not be.
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline cheech

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2017, 09:32:21 AM »
Does everyone think that both Patrick and McCray are going to make it until Sunday?  TT has to be looking for someone out there that could come in and replace one of them doesn't he?  An injury on the OL Sunday is going to be a recipe for disaster.  With Seattle's front 7 - if any of our starters go down - it will significantly impact the game.  The idea of quantity vs. quality just doesn't play well for me with the OL.  There isn't one of the backup OL that appears ready to step in. 

The signing of Brooks is a solid one.  He will bring something this team doesn't have a lot of and that is toughness.  Daniels is obviously the leader there and Brooks will bring the same mentality.  Actually, I think we will see a lot of Perry, Mathews and Brooks on the field at the same time. 

I think signing Dial will be the end of Ringo.  Dial is a big dude who is solid, but not spectacular.  He can pretty much play any spot.  He should be signed.

Breakout players this year?  Josh Jones on defense will make plays all over the field and Lane Taylor will be named to the Pro-Bowl.

Lane Taylor has much respect from me.  He's improved every year and proved my doubts wrong last season.  Pro Bowl is still a stretch just because there are some awesome guards in the NFC and he doesn't move as well. 

I get the feeling that McCray only stuck because of Patrick's concussion.  It certainly wasn't because of his PS performance!  I would not be surprised to see him on the PS later this year.  I'd love to see added depth on the interior before Sunday.  I agree - it could get ugly vs. Seattle if we're not 100% on the OL. 


Josh Jones sure can fly around and hit, but he's been lost quite a few times too.  I think his snaps will be limited until he can prove that he understands the scheme.  Marwin Evans is my guy to break out.  Assignment sound, always around the ball, enough athleticism to make the play. 
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Offline cheech

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2017, 09:34:59 AM »
Not sure on Dial.

He has the prototypical 3-4 body, but was not the same player last year that he was in 2015.  He took a huge step back.  Was it complacency after getting the extension?  Was it from all the turmoil on the 49ers killing motivation?   It is interesting that in week one, while Kaepernick was protesting during the national anthem, Dial was out with the volunteers helping to hold the flag so there might have been conflict in the locker room affecting his performance.   Who knows.

He isn't a guarantee to be better than Ringo.

Really? 

Man, I think you value guys that wear green more than I do.  Ringo has a lot to prove vs. starting caliber OL.  When he had his chance this PS, he was invisible.   Dial doesn't have the inside rush that Ringo *could* possess, but he's a step up from Ringo and RJF in run defense.

Go back and watch the games from 2016.  I did last night.

Ringo isn't the point- Dial's poor play in 2016 is.  He was a pretty fair player in 2015, but not good last year.  it is a question of which player you are getting.  Thinking he is automatically better than Ringo is a questionable thought.  He might be, he might not be.

What did you see from Dial?  I watched a bit of tape and saw a guy who is really stout but doesn't offer much of a pass rush.  My preference with DL being stout in the run probably skews my opinion, mind you.  Besides Ryan, we don't have ILB who can make up for a DL getting washed out of a play. 
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Online craig

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2017, 09:41:47 AM »
Dial, wasn't he like a guy who had only like a $1.5/year contract?  And then he wasn't good enough for his team to keep him?  Don't see that as a guy who moves the needle much either way.  Whether Packers sign him or not. 

Offline Leader

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2017, 09:43:09 AM »
The signing of Brooks is a solid one.  He will bring something this team doesn't have a lot of and that is toughness.  Daniels is obviously the leader there and Brooks will bring the same mentality.  Actually, I think we will see a lot of Perry, Mathews and Brooks on the field at the same time

Good points phanatic1 so I honed in on them. I agree. I'm *hopeful* Brooks hasnt hit the wall - its impossible to tell when it'll happen and  I'm a bit worried about pass pro - that could be his achilles heel - but if not, he brings an aggression I like and I think we could use. Not the 15yd penalty type - but the beat you over the head till I beat you down style. Without burning him out, I want to see him on the field. I think combo of him coming from one side - Daniels/Clark in the middle - and CM/whomever coming opposite - will be nice to see - and they'll get there. They'll apply the pressure we need.