September 26, 2017, 07:59:30 AM

Author Topic: Overall Roster Impressions  (Read 4330 times)

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Offline cheech

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2017, 09:50:38 AM »
Dial, wasn't he like a guy who had only like a $1.5/year contract?  And then he wasn't good enough for his team to keep him?  Don't see that as a guy who moves the needle much either way.  Whether Packers sign him or not.

He had signed a 3 year, 12.5 million dollar deal - that could have gone up to 16.5 with incentives. 

He was cut because he is a 3-4 end (5tech) and San Fran is going to a 4-3 defense.  Same reason Brooks was let go.
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Offline phanatic1

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2017, 09:55:22 AM »
Dial is very stout against the run.  Being 6'6" and 315 brings that size to hold his point.  He fell out of favor in San Fran with the influx of several high draft picks and a change in scheme.  He isn't going to jump off the screen at you, but he is going to be a steady guy that won't get pushed around and will continue the pattern of trying to become more physical up front.  He is a slightly bigger version of Lowery and more explosive off the ball. If he is signed, he will be a good addition and a guy that would hang around for a few years and provide steady effort and solid, but unspectacular play. 

If only TT could find a match like this on the OL! 

Online craig

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2017, 10:09:12 AM »
Agree with both B and cheech re receivers.  I think with Aaron at QB, Jordy/Cobb/Adams/Allison have a chance to be a very effective group that could go to the SB. 

But receivers should, and do, have better numbers playing with Aaron.  (Jared Cook with Rodgers vs pre-Rodgers.  Greg Jennings with and without.)  Not sure the numbers prove greatness.  Think a lot of teams have some good, talented WR. 

So not sure the Packers receiver group is superior to what a couple handfuls of other teams have.  But the combo of a good group with a great QB could lead to great results, and that's what matters most. 

Last year the Lacy injury proved a blessing.  Rodgers started throwing a lot more, tended to find and keep rhythm, receivers got more touches and I think got more rhythm, etc..  I hope this year the pass/run ratio is as high or higher than league average right from the start, and that the offense really thrives.




Online craig

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2017, 10:26:01 AM »
...He had signed a 3 year, 12.5 million dollar deal - that could have gone up to 16.5 with incentives....

Thanks, that helps. :)   Yeah, if a guy was a >$4/year guy, and isn't old or hurt, then that would seem a potential good addition to the rotational depth and injury insurance. 

Daniels/Clark/Lowry could be a very nice starting group, perhaps a strong asset positional group.  But rotating or injury-replacement with RJF/Ringo might weaken that quickly.  So if Dial could give a higher-quality depth/insurance, that might be fun. 

Adams two days of padded practice has generated a lot of buzz for him.  Maybe two days is all it takes to see a man who stands out against his peers, but I wonder if more extended exposure would have dimmed the buzz.  If Adams does provide some good impact this season, probably best to welcome that as unexpected value, rather than expecting it and being disappointed if he doesn't.   

Offline Twain

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2017, 10:54:44 AM »
Not sure on Dial.

He has the prototypical 3-4 body, but was not the same player last year that he was in 2015.  He took a huge step back.  Was it complacency after getting the extension?  Was it from all the turmoil on the 49ers killing motivation?   It is interesting that in week one, while Kaepernick was protesting during the national anthem, Dial was out with the volunteers helping to hold the flag so there might have been conflict in the locker room affecting his performance.   Who knows.

He isn't a guarantee to be better than Ringo.

Really? 

Man, I think you value guys that wear green more than I do.  Ringo has a lot to prove vs. starting caliber OL.  When he had his chance this PS, he was invisible.   Dial doesn't have the inside rush that Ringo *could* possess, but he's a step up from Ringo and RJF in run defense.

Go back and watch the games from 2016.  I did last night.

Ringo isn't the point- Dial's poor play in 2016 is.  He was a pretty fair player in 2015, but not good last year.  it is a question of which player you are getting.  Thinking he is automatically better than Ringo is a questionable thought.  He might be, he might not be.

What did you see from Dial?  I watched a bit of tape and saw a guy who is really stout but doesn't offer much of a pass rush.  My preference with DL being stout in the run probably skews my opinion, mind you.  Besides Ryan, we don't have ILB who can make up for a DL getting washed out of a play.

But that is my point.  Last year he was frequently washed out of the play.  On top of that, he wasn't getting off the blocks like he did in 2015.

Like I said, he may come back to form once he gets away from the dysfunction of the 49ers.  But I think a lot of fans see 6-5 318 and think he has to be good.  He may be, but I don't see it as a sure thing.  The thing is, the worst case he ends up your 5th or 6th guy, and how much do they contribute over the year?  Not like there is a lot of risk, but he may not be a significant improvement.
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Offline golfman

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2017, 11:01:57 AM »
Could Dial be Gabe Wilkens re-incarnate? Once he got paid he quit trying.
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Offline Twain

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2017, 11:12:47 AM »
Could Dial be Gabe Wilkens re-incarnate? Once he got paid he quit trying.

It could be, but I am hoping it was generalized 49er dysfunction affecting him.  Sort of like the "Woodson has nothing left because he wasn't playing well with the Raiders" phenomenon.  It has been known to happen.  Dial won't be a pro-bowler like Woodson- just using that as an example of when team dysfunction affects a player's performance.

Don't get me wrong- I am hoping he comes in and is a stud.  Just waiting to see.
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Online RT

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2017, 11:14:45 AM »
The Packers having Dial in may well be them just doing their due diligence. Dials name was leaked that they where bringing him in, but their are probably several players in for visits today and the public just doesn't know the names. This is nothing new as most already know, but on mondays all season long they will be having players in and kicking tires on them. The vast majority of them nothing ever come of it. 

Offline Leader

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2017, 11:37:07 AM »
Could Dial be Gabe Wilkens re-incarnate? Once he got paid he quit trying.
It could be, but I am hoping it was generalized 49er dysfunction affecting him....... 

Exactly right. Players with a shot at actually winning and going somewhere tend to put out more than those playing out the string. Example? Watch Richardson now that he's with SEA. I'm not saying Dial's in the same talent zip code as Richardson - not going there - but the NYJs, who had alot of talent along that DL - were DOA in most games last year and their DL often played like it. It would look like they were just dancing with the opposing OL. Not doing much of anything but swaying back and forth till the play was over.

Why risk serious injury - and possibly kill off your short NFL career and the riches you're pulling down - for a team/organization thats got absolutely no shot and proves its incompetence over and over? This year? On a similarly talented DL and a SEA team that could make it to the SB? I expect his game will pick up considerably.

Whatever Dial's got to give - maybe we'll see more of it now that he's got a shot at something. Maybe.

Online craig

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2017, 11:53:49 AM »
The Packers having Dial in may well be them just doing their due diligence. ...

Absolutely. 

Offline cheech

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2017, 12:03:32 PM »
The Packers having Dial in may well be them just doing their due diligence. ...

Absolutely.

Quite a few outlets said they were shopping around for DL help.  I'd be surprised if he left without a contract. 

AN Adams (when healthy), Dial, RJF rotation as backups could be a really nice run- stuffing group.
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Offline SDProfessor

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2017, 12:31:05 PM »
Dial visit could just be a look-see, but the reports of GB looking for help there make me wonder if they're looking to add him. Dial would be a really solid addition on run downs. Dial, Lowry, and Clark are all very good run defenders and Mike Daniels is great for his size too.

After digesting the roster for a couple of days ... I feel like everything pretty much worked out the way GB wanted it to...

- They got back the WRs they wanted for the PS. Clark is going to be a really nice developmental guy and Yancey is the high draft pick of the bunch.
- They added depth at OLB again (I do really like what Odom brings in the same way I liked what Gilbert could bring). I don't think GB is giving up many yards rushing this year and while I think there's still room for pass rush improvement, they're good enough in this area now IMO.
- They actually got a draft pick for a guy they were going to cut -- even if it's a throwaway pick, GB loves picks.
- They were able to hold onto Amichia who could develop into something worthwhile. Also have another PS OL that may be able to play tackle.
- They have a punter who, IMO, earned his spot and looks like could actually work out.

The only potential gaffe was losing Hill (who they obviously preferred over Callahan --- they waited to sign Callahan until after hill was claimed). But he's a 27-year old third string QB.

I thought getting rid of Price was a poor decision at first, but if they do bring in Dial, I'm not worried whatsoever about that spot anymore.

One interesting thing this year: TT is really favoring a lot of veterans on this roster. I was pretty surprised that in the end he gave a spot to RJF over Price. Brooks, RJF, Bennett, Kendricks, Evans, House, and now possibly Dial....

This is one of the more veteran teams the Packers have had. And a lot of these guys have come from outside the org.




Offline dannobanano

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2017, 08:13:53 PM »
I still think they are going to end up keeping at least 6 DL because they will be spending noticably more time in the base 3-4 than in past years.

Even before Dial's name came up, this years DL was already a better group than what they have had for the last 5-6 years (IMO).

If staying more in base 3-4 ends up being the case, then replacing Dial for Ringo could be common sense from a stopping the run perspective. But I also think that there will be increased inside pass rush pressure this year because of the improvement of Clark and Lowry.........and their improvement will also give Daniels more 1-1 oppotunities as well. Adams, when he finally gets near 100%, could add to that inside pressure.

Hearing that Adams is practicing is very good news for this group................although, you would think they are going to be very cautious with him for a while. He's likely a game day scratch for the first 2-3 weeks.

Offline Pugger

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2017, 10:19:03 PM »
The Packers having Dial in may well be them just doing their due diligence. Dials name was leaked that they where bringing him in, but their are probably several players in for visits today and the public just doesn't know the names. This is nothing new as most already know, but on mondays all season long they will be having players in and kicking tires on them. The vast majority of them nothing ever come of it.

Did he come to town today?  I haven't heard a thing.

Offline big ror

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Re: Overall Roster Impressions
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2017, 03:35:36 AM »
As someone who posted the following--http://forum.packerchatters.com/index.php?topic=5648.msg140532#msg140532--last year, I really appreciate this thread.

That said, I disagree with most of what cheech said in his original post. Or, put another way, I see things differently (read: more sanguine).

A few responses:
  • The depth along the offensive line isn't ideal, especially with the way Spriggs struggled and given Barclay's injury (who, by accounts, was settling in nicely at center).  But Murphy seemed to progress and, as Pugger noted, we're talking about depth.  I realize that Bakhtiari, Linsely, and Bulaga have all missed time and that Evans is a bit long in the tooth, but the starters are great.  Evans might not be Lang, but Bakhtiari, Taylor, and Linsley should all be improved.  And I don't expect any drop off with Bulaga, unless the ankle lingers.  The line is as good as it's ever been during Rodgers's tenure.
  • TE is the best it's been since Chmura/Jackson.  Rodgers, last year's starting TE for a majority of the year who was having a great camp before the finger injury, is now the number three.  "Good shape" is quite the understatement.  Few teams have the trio the Packers do, let alone the duo they do.
  • Regarding RB, you elide a crucial factor--Ty had the entire off-season to prepare for his new position/role--while you tacitly reference a real concern:  Ty's ability to stay healthy for the entire year.  I have concerns about the latter, to be sure, but even if he does get hurt, the Packers will be in the same position as last year:  fielding an inexperienced player at the position.  Running backs aren't nearly as important in today's NFL, but I'm super excited to see Ty in the feature role.  I've always been a major mark of his, I'll admit it, but I don't think it's without reason:  the guy was amazing last year given what was asked of him.  He is a nightmare matchup for so many defenses, and I think he's really underrated as a runner given his size, strength, speed, and intelligence.  I worry about him fumbling, but otherwise, I'm really eager to see him as a running back (and wear his jersey as I cheer him on).  He fits this offense and makes them difficult to defend given his ability to motion out as a receiver.  This position seems far better suited to fit the identity of the offense than last year's.
  • As others have said, the dismissal of the WRs is a bit much.  I'm interested to know what other trio is better than Nelson, Adams, and Cobb.  I'm not suggesting there isn't a better trio; I'm just interested to know which trios people think are better than the Packers's.  Nelson is easily a Top 10 receiver, Adams might surpass him this year, and Cobb is one of the best slot WRs in the NFL when healthy (which he wasn't the past two years).  And Allison is a hell of a number four who is on the come.  I like Davis's potential too.  They're stacked at receiver.  And when you add in the TEs and Ty, this is the best set of skill players Rodgers has had since 2010 or 11.  Honestly, it's better.  And it's definitely more experienced.  I don't see how this year's unit is worse than last year's; in fact, I think this is one of the best receiving corps in all of football--made all the better by Rodgers.  People say that Rodgers makes the WRs, but we've seen how much better he is when he has five competent receivers versus when he's playing with an injured Adams and Cobbs and nothing else.
  • The DL is better.  Daniels is Daniels, but both Lowry and Clark are better.  So right there, you have improvement.  RJF is a great rotational vet, and he seems like an upgrade to Guion.  Maybe a wash.  Ringo in year three should offer a better version of Ringo in year two (though his dance moves might be difficult to enhance).  In short, the DL is better than last year.
  • OLB is the position I was concerned about the most given the departures of both Peppers and Jones.  However, the White Buffalo clearly realized this, hence his moves to sign Brooks and claim Odom.  The concern here is health, as both Matthews and Perry don't have great histories in this department.  But when healthy, this group is a strength of the defense.
  • The ILBs are few:  Ryan, Martinez, and Thomas.  All three are a year older and working toward their prime years.  I expect improved play from all three.  Plus, this group is augmented by the safeties.
  • The corners.  As evident in the thread I referenced above, this was the area I was most concerned about heading into last year despite most fans thinking it was a position of strength.  This year, however, I do consider it a position of strength.  I was happy to see House return, as I thought he was misused last year in Jacksonville and is a really solid starting corner with great size who is still in his prime.  I also really like King, whom I thought was an excellent selection.  His size and speed at that position are incredibly rare.  The good thing is that I don't think he'll be forced into action:  I expect both Randall and Rollins to have bounce back years (they, like Adams in his second year, were asked to do too much while toughing out debilitating injuries), and their performances both in camp and in pre-season games haven't provided any evidence to the contrary.  Both seem well positioned for breakout seasons.  That said, I imagine they'll want to get King a fair amount of snaps:  he'll benefit from the experience, on one hand, but on the other, his sheer presence is a mental deterrent for opposing QBs.  And, to top it off, Gunter--who was the number one to close last year--is now fifth on the depth chart.  What's more, he was moved to the slot, a spot where, despite his lack of speed, he seems to be maximizing his size, strength, and length advantage.  After him, you have Hawkins, who is developing quite well.  This group is significantly upgraded, though it was an obvious major weakness last year.
  • You're absolutely right regarding the safeties.  This is just a fantastic group.  I don't think any other team in the NFL has the talent and depth they do.  As good as I think both HaHa and Burnett are, I'm eager to see what Brice and Jones can do, and I expect both of them to get a lot of snaps this year.
In short, I don't see any position on the team that is worse off from last year.  And most positions seem improved based on increased experience.  And that's something I don't see a lot of people recognizing.  I mean, look at the rookies:  of the 10, three were cut, one is starting on the PUP, and another is hurt; another three are running backs, all of whom aren't expected to get many snaps barring injury.  This team isn't counting on rookies like it has in years past.  Ted's more recent drafts are coming home to roost.

Another really significant reason I'm optimistic about the Packers this season is their speed on defense.  The lack of speed and athleticism has been the achilles heel of this defense ever since Collins was forced into retirement and Woodson left.  Shields and Matthews were able to make up for short comings here and there, but both have been hamstrung by injury.  This year, however, they have legit and elite speed and athleticism.  And at every position.  It was noticeable in the pre-season, too:  while there were some alarming missed tackles, I haven't seen a Packers's defense swarm and gang tackle that consistently in a long time.  I'm very excited to see this defense, especially in the Nitro package, based on speed and athleticism alone.  It will be exciting.

And then you throw in an offense that should be near the tops in the NFL, and I think:  this is a championship roster, not a thin one.  It has the speed they've lacked, and the veterans they've needed.  And they're hungry:  they've been to and lost two out of the last three NFC Championship Games, and the year they didn't make it, they were an OT loss away.

If they don't get to the NFC Championship Game, this season will have been a failure.  In fact, it might be if they don't win the Super Bowl.  This is a talented bunch.  I hope they stay healthy enough to show it. 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 05:00:05 AM by big ror »
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