November 22, 2017, 06:45:16 AM

Author Topic: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks  (Read 2026 times)

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Offline dannobanano

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Re: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2017, 05:06:21 PM »
We all suffer from our love of our own opinions, its just human nature.

Then I must not be human cause I hate my own opinion....primarily because its right all the time!
You have any idea how hard it is being right all the time? Its quite a burden to bear  :)


Offline cheech

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Re: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2017, 06:15:09 PM »
We all suffer from our love of our own opinions, its just human nature.

Then I must not be human cause I hate my own opinion....primarily because its right all the time!
You have any idea how hard it is being right all the time? Its quite a burden to bear  :)

You do realize my tag has nothing to do with my opinion of myself.  It was a complaint written by someone else that was part of my being placed on the watch list.  I now wear it as a badge of honor.
I'm right and everyone else does not have an opinion worth talking about.

Offline Twain

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Re: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2017, 07:23:47 PM »

In the case of Evans - we all saw the same thing.  He struggled at times both in pass protection and in the running game.  When we had Lang and Sitton, Rodgers had room to step up in the pocket if need be.  He was awarded no such room with Evans at OG.  The screen game is largely limited to the left side because Evans just can't get out there to make a lead block.  As a result, the playbook is limited. 


Apparently we didn't see the same the same thing. 

The inability to step up into the pocket involved a lot more than Evans.  Taylor and Linsley had problems holding their ground as well, and I didn't detect any extra help for Evans.  Personally, I thought Linsley had one of his worst games in a long time- put the snap on the ground, whiffed on several blocks, and didn't hold up as well as usual to the bull rush.

On the screen run to the right in the third quarter, Evans got out to block fine. I don't know why you feel he can't. Linsley was the guy who whiffed on his block.  Evans was out in time to head off the first defender who might have totally blown up the play otherwise. 

Evans did have two holding plays in the third quarter.  The first was precipitated by Montgomery tripping Evans while he had his guy well blocked, and Evans wisely held his man to keep Rodgers from getting killed.  That one is pretty clearly on Montgomery.

The second one came when Richardson finally beats him after over 4 seconds.  That one was on Evans. Given that he got a heavy dose of Richardson and Bennett all day, he didn't give up much.

The big problem was that the line wasn't dealing well with the stunts.  Murphy did reasonably well for a first start, but when the tackle faked inside and looped around, Evans picked up the DE but Murphy failed to recognize it early enough, and was late getting off the end to pick up the tackle.  The left side struggled with the various stunts and overload situations as well.

The good news is that most of these issues will get better as the line plays more together and Murphy gets more experience or Bulaga gets healthy and can play again.  Also, I don't think we see as talented a defensive front again unless we meet Seattle in the playoffs.



« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 07:25:43 PM by Twain »
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline B

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Re: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2017, 07:34:01 PM »
I've never been a big OFF guy and have always said so.

T.J. Lang recently weighed in on PFF:

Pro Football Focus has always been kind to TJ Lang.

TJ Lang does not care for Pro Football Focus.

In fact, he thinks the advanced analysis website is “absolute garbage,” especially when it comes to grading linemen.

“My opinion is there’s no way you can possibly accurately grade offensive linemen if you haven’t done that job before in your life. A lot of these guys, they’re not qualified to be grading NFL players,” Lang told the Valenti Show on 97.1 The Ticket. “A lot of the stuff I realize is pretty basic, obvious information. If I clearly just get whooped and let up a sack, you can say, ‘Yeah, that guy let up a sack.'”

Otherwise, he believes, the so-called experts are in over their heads.

“But they don’t know anything about identification, what offensive linemen are supposed to do. They think if a guy blitzes off the edge, that’s automatically the tackle’s block, but a lot of times that’s not the case. They’ve always graded me well, which I don’t mind, but I still don’t respect it,” Lang said.

Apparently, most NFL players feel the same way.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline Twain

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Re: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2017, 07:36:32 PM »
Here is the Link B:

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2017/09/13/tj-lang-pro-football-focus-is-absolute-garbage/

The implication is that we as fans are pretty limited in our analysis as well, which is probably true.
"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline Twain

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Re: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2017, 07:47:41 PM »
On a lighter note, watching the all 22 I saw a play in the first quarter where Davante Adams put a double move on Sherman and got well beyond him.  Rodgers wasn't going that way, but it was nice to see Sherman burned.

"The trouble ain't that there are too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."

Offline mikebpackfan

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Re: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2017, 07:53:57 PM »

With regards to SSG's comment, he is right- we all use a lot of confirmation bias in these discussions- we ignore the stuff that doesn't agree with our point of view, and accept the stuff that does.  The use of PFF data is no different.  The board is a good example of the Dunning Kruger effect, and confirmation bias is a big part of that.  We all do it.

SSG is falling into a different logical fallacy, which, if it has a name, I don't know it.  I hear it all the time.  There is a large group of people (in this case Packers fans) which he has decided don't like PFF, because of the comments of a few.  Then he gets upset at the apparent inconsistency of some Packer fans liking PFF.  Except it is not necessarily inconsistent:  there may be many fans who like PFF and many who don't.  The sportswriters also do this all the time, claim fans are fickle because when we are losing they hear lots of shouts for the firing of this coach and that coach.  Then we win a game and they hear that coach is a genius and then they are upset: fans can't have it both ways.  Except, it's quite possible that it is different fans and there is nothing inconsistent about many of them wanting the coach fired and many different fans liking the coach. 

Offline cheech

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Re: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2017, 08:42:00 PM »

In the case of Evans - we all saw the same thing.  He struggled at times both in pass protection and in the running game.  When we had Lang and Sitton, Rodgers had room to step up in the pocket if need be.  He was awarded no such room with Evans at OG.  The screen game is largely limited to the left side because Evans just can't get out there to make a lead block.  As a result, the playbook is limited. 


Apparently we didn't see the same the same thing. 

The inability to step up into the pocket involved a lot more than Evans.  Taylor and Linsley had problems holding their ground as well, and I didn't detect any extra help for Evans.  Personally, I thought Linsley had one of his worst games in a long time- put the snap on the ground, whiffed on several blocks, and didn't hold up as well as usual to the bull rush.

On the screen run to the right in the third quarter, Evans got out to block fine. I don't know why you feel he can't. Linsley was the guy who whiffed on his block.  Evans was out in time to head off the first defender who might have totally blown up the play otherwise. 

Evans did have two holding plays in the third quarter.  The first was precipitated by Montgomery tripping Evans while he had his guy well blocked, and Evans wisely held his man to keep Rodgers from getting killed.  That one is pretty clearly on Montgomery.

The second one came when Richardson finally beats him after over 4 seconds.  That one was on Evans. Given that he got a heavy dose of Richardson and Bennett all day, he didn't give up much.

The big problem was that the line wasn't dealing well with the stunts.  Murphy did reasonably well for a first start, but when the tackle faked inside and looped around, Evans picked up the DE but Murphy failed to recognize it early enough, and was late getting off the end to pick up the tackle.  The left side struggled with the various stunts and overload situations as well.

The good news is that most of these issues will get better as the line plays more together and Murphy gets more experience or Bulaga gets healthy and can play again.  Also, I don't think we see as talented a defensive front again unless we meet Seattle in the playoffs.

#Invalid YouTube Link#
https://youtu.be/Hysmi_nsXq4

Not every play here, but the best i could find.  If you don't see a limited player, then I think we'll have to revisit that definition.  He can stay in front of his man just fine.  He has an anchor without a doubt.  But he. Can't. Move.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 08:43:13 PM by cheech »
I'm right and everyone else does not have an opinion worth talking about.

Offline B

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Re: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2017, 09:14:04 PM »
We've kind of gotten off topic here.

I thought our young middle linebackers Ryan and Martinez stood out in the times that they were in the game, both recording tackles for losses.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline Shanedorf

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Re: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2017, 03:16:43 PM »
We've kind of gotten off topic here.

I thought our young middle linebackers Ryan and Martinez stood out in the times that they were in the game, both recording tackles for losses.

Ryan didn't get much action, but he made some plays- including helping out on the Eddie Lacy TFL. Martinez got a lot of snaps, while Joe Thomas didn't. What will be the mix this weekend ?

Offline B

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Re: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2017, 06:55:03 AM »
Studs:

OLB Nick Perry played dominate ball on Sunday...

A great breakdown of this impressive performance van be found below. Definitely worth the time...

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/platform/amp/2017/9/14/16303624/packers-film-study-week-1-why-it-worked-have-a-day-nick-perry
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi

Offline craig

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Re: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2017, 09:32:39 AM »
Thanks, B, that's really nice detailed breakdown.  Helpful. 

Offline B

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Re: Studs and Duds, Week 1 vs Seahawks
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2017, 07:25:49 AM »
Always happy to share a good read Craig. By the way thanks for your many contributions to this site.
The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game.
They just ran out of time.
-Vince Lombardi