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Author Topic: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?  (Read 10757 times)

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Offline jameslofton

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Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« on: April 27, 2017, 10:15:29 AM »
McGinn and a few posters have suggested that our first two draft picks two years ago, Randall and Rollins can't play.
McGinn writes, "General manager Ted Thompson missed badly on two players, Damarious Randall and Quinten Rollins, with his opening choices two years ago. They should be top-notch starters now. The Packers have little choice but to make confidence-enhancing statements regarding the two players, but with Randallís lack of competitiveness and Rollinsí lack of speed their careers could be over in a year or two."

Personally I think it is premature to say. But I think at the end of this year we will have a much better idea. I personally expect them to bounce back.

McGinn thinks the Packers are desperate to replace Shields, "The Packers easily qualify as desperate. They even signed Davon House, a move to bring back a player once deemed expendable that no team prefers to make, and have been calling on and investigating every veteran that became available...In the eyes of personnel people, LaDarius Gunter, Randall, Rollins and House all are No. 3 or No. 4 cornerbacks. The Packers really canít afford not to take a cornerback in the first round, but even beyond that they need to draft another corner some time before the sixth round."

Most of this analysis is to backup his guess that the packers will select a CB with the first pick (which I feel is a safe bet) but I don't think it is because Randall and Rollins will be out of the league in a couple of years. Too dire in my opinion.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2017/04/26/mcginn-king-could-meet-packers-biggest-need/100929488/


Offline Donzo

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2017, 10:23:38 AM »
If mcgin says yes, then the answer is no... His agenda is to inflame and promote his brand, not to honestly breakdown the Packers. A lot of Packer fans fall inline with that with little to no analysis and an agenda to be hyper critical.

Some food for thought. A year ago the group think was bashing Adams and the OT's, Bulaga and Bakhi... So, how'd that turn out?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 10:24:37 AM by Donzo »

Offline WTX_Cheese

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2017, 10:43:34 AM »
We've had one rookie season with both showing lots of promise and a sophomore season where both fought injuries almost the entire time. I'd give Randall and Rollins the benefit of the doubt. It worked with Davante Adams.

Online SSG

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2017, 10:43:49 AM »
Both players were about as bad as any in the NFL last year but its hard to call them a  mistake just yet.  Their inexperience at the position showed badly.  Already putrid play just got worse with the addition of injuries.  Time will tell.  Hopefully both kids spent their entire summers watching film and learning because their inexperience showed badly last year.
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Offline ThatGuy284

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2017, 11:09:24 AM »
Agree with Donzo.  McGinn has a history of making stupid comments like those in this article and then later writing a counter article as if his previous words were never in print.  But man his obvious TT bias is just getting worse and worse -- he just can't refrain from tyring to make inflammatory comments and it really serves to undermine the points he may be trying to make

To say the Packers "missed badly" is premature at best.   Both Randall and Rollins had very promising rookie seasons -- to the point that nearly everyone agreed DB was the strength of our team coming into last season.   After a very promising opening JAX game for Randall, they both regressed but they were also beat up and injured throughout the season.  Everyone always throws out "it takes several years to judge the value of a draft" but are so quick to discount a player after 1 promising rookie year and 1 injury plagued season?  How about letting players actually "develop" and acclimate to the Pro game - like Adams, Bakhti, Nelson, Bulaga etc (all favorite whipping boys in the past)

"The Packers easily qualify as desperate" ??  I just can't take this man seriously.

Offline PackerJoe

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2017, 11:23:19 AM »
I think both these guys were banged up pretty badly and the shields loss added to the problem.  When you are on the field constantly, you will get hurt.  I believe one of them had a pulled groin or hernia and then can't be fun playing with that!!

Do I think we can upgrade that position?  Absolutely!!!  Was it mistake drafting them?  Probably not cause TT knew we were going to lose some DB's to FA so he had to stockpile.  McGinn ain't too bright!!!

I think we draft two DB's this year, one corner, one safety. 

If McGinn wants to write about our defensive weakness his focus should be on the slow ass MLB's on this roster!!!!!! When you run a 3-4 defense, you need talent and speed at the LB position.  Mathews is just one piece of that pie.  TT has failed to address the other three pieces of the pie.  Solve that problem and we'll be playing in the Super Bowl!!!! 

By the way, you shouldn't be listening to your head coach who is offensive minded when it comes to picking!!!!  Our offense is fine!  Look at our first six games on the schedule.  If they don't fix the defense we could be 0-6!!!!!

Offline Leader

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2017, 12:15:00 PM »
I'm giving them a pass.....will they intercept or knock it down (?) we shall see :)
I dont recall, but neither came into the league touted/ranked as top CB talent (which was probably picked over by time we drafted) and neither was ready for the year 2 "rotate up" necessary when Shields went down - especially with the amount of injuries incurred. I'm hopeful they bring a better game this year. We need it - cause we certainly cant repeat last year or keep designating high draft picks to the same position.

« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 12:20:37 PM by Leader »

Offline Twain

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2017, 01:01:52 PM »
Randall's strength was his ability to mirror and break on the ball.  As a rookie, when healthy, he made numerous big plays late in the game to either save the game or put the team in position to be successful.  Last year, once he pulled the groin, he lost that ability and thus was extremely limited.  Healthy, he is a good corner, but not great.

Randall's weakness in both years has been his inability to press at the line and play bump and run.  As a safety in college, it is a skill he never developed. 

If Randall can learn to press, and comes in and has a healthy season, he would become a very good corner.  With his speed and ball skills, the ability to press at the line and push a receiver out of the short timing routes would make him a very reliable defender.

I don't think Rollins is equipped to be a perimeter corner.  It seems to me his strength is zone coverage from the slot, with good short area quickness and a good break on the ball.  Last year he got forced into some perimeter play due to injuries, and that does not suit him well.  Combine that with injury that took away his quickness, and he was extremely limited as well.

In my mind, the issue with the secondary is we have a limited number of guys who can play the perimeter.  Combined with the safety group, we have good depth for the slot/ nickel/ dime positions.   Adding a player that can play on the perimeter so that we aren't either forcing guys with a bad wheel to play out there when they should be rehabbing the injury or putting a limited slot guy out there, would make a big difference.

I don't think a reasonable man would conclude that they were bad picks at this point.  There are a lot of high picks at corner that take a few years to up their game to an NFL level.  McCarthy said that Randall and Rollins were going to spend the off season working out together in California, and hopefully they got healthy and spent time working on their press coverage technique.

They aren't wasted picks at this point, but they do need to learn a few new things to get to where we want them to be.  This is where character, and a desire to get better should kick in.  We will have to wait and see if they have that in them.

« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 01:05:17 PM by Twain »
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Offline cpk1994

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2017, 01:10:19 PM »
McGinn and a few posters have suggested that our first two draft picks two years ago, Randall and Rollins can't play.
McGinn writes, "General manager Ted Thompson missed badly on two players, Damarious Randall and Quinten Rollins, with his opening choices two years ago. They should be top-notch starters now. The Packers have little choice but to make confidence-enhancing statements regarding the two players, but with Randallís lack of competitiveness and Rollinsí lack of speed their careers could be over in a year or two."

Personally I think it is premature to say. But I think at the end of this year we will have a much better idea. I personally expect them to bounce back.

McGinn thinks the Packers are desperate to replace Shields, "The Packers easily qualify as desperate. They even signed Davon House, a move to bring back a player once deemed expendable that no team prefers to make, and have been calling on and investigating every veteran that became available...In the eyes of personnel people, LaDarius Gunter, Randall, Rollins and House all are No. 3 or No. 4 cornerbacks. The Packers really canít afford not to take a cornerback in the first round, but even beyond that they need to draft another corner some time before the sixth round."

Most of this analysis is to backup his guess that the packers will select a CB with the first pick (which I feel is a safe bet) but I don't think it is because Randall and Rollins will be out of the league in a couple of years. Too dire in my opinion.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2017/04/26/mcginn-king-could-meet-packers-biggest-need/100929488/
McGinn is a moron. He is pot sitrring and slinging mud. Randall and Rollins were hurt most of last year, so that hurt their second year development.
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Online SSG

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2017, 01:21:56 PM »
Randall's strength was his ability to mirror and break on the ball.  As a rookie, when healthy, he made numerous big plays late in the game to either save the game or put the team in position to be successful.  Last year, once he pulled the groin, he lost that ability and thus was extremely limited.  Healthy, he is a good corner, but not great.

Randall's weakness in both years has been his inability to press at the line and play bump and run.  As a safety in college, it is a skill he never developed. 

If Randall can learn to press, and comes in and has a healthy season, he would become a very good corner.  With his speed and ball skills, the ability to press at the line and push a receiver out of the short timing routes would make him a very reliable defender.

I don't think Rollins is equipped to be a perimeter corner.  It seems to me his strength is zone coverage from the slot, with good short area quickness and a good break on the ball.  Last year he got forced into some perimeter play due to injuries, and that does not suit him well.  Combine that with injury that took away his quickness, and he was extremely limited as well.

In my mind, the issue with the secondary is we have a limited number of guys who can play the perimeter.  Combined with the safety group, we have good depth for the slot/ nickel/ dime positions.   Adding a player that can play on the perimeter so that we aren't either forcing guys with a bad wheel to play out there when they should be rehabbing the injury or putting a limited slot guy out there, would make a big difference.

I don't think a reasonable man would conclude that they were bad picks at this point.  There are a lot of high picks at corner that take a few years to up their game to an NFL level.  McCarthy said that Randall and Rollins were going to spend the off season working out together in California, and hopefully they got healthy and spent time working on their press coverage technique.

They aren't wasted picks at this point, but they do need to learn a few new things to get to where we want them to be.  This is where character, and a desire to get better should kick in.  We will have to wait and see if they have that in them.

Randall had success in week one but after that he was exposed and exposed often.  He didn't appear on the injury report until week 5 last year.  His week 2 and week 3 stretch was probably as bad of a 2 game stretch as any CB in the NFL had last year.  Stephon Diggs and Marvin Jones both had career games and they did so in part because of Randall didn't look like he had any business as a starting NFL CB.  If he's going to be a full time starter, he's got a lot of work to do.  His injuries last year were a  problem but nearly as big of a problem as his sloppy technique and generally bad play. 
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Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2017, 01:23:15 PM »
Ask again at the end of 2017, you'll have a much better basis for making a decision then.

My gut says Rollins will make it and Randall will not, but that is a gut feeling based on nothing concrete.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 01:24:21 PM by OneTwoSixFive »
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Offline Gregg

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2017, 02:30:33 PM »
I think the jury is still out on both of them.

We will see how they play this year.  But I think its obvious we have to take a CB in round one or two.

CB is a difficult position to learn to play.  There is a lot of film study, anticipation, and technique involved.  Sometimes it takes awhile.

Offline Twain

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2017, 02:48:39 PM »

Randall had success in week one but after that he was exposed and exposed often.  He didn't appear on the injury report until week 5 last year.  His week 2 and week 3 stretch was probably as bad of a 2 game stretch as any CB in the NFL had last year.  Stephon Diggs and Marvin Jones both had career games and they did so in part because of Randall didn't look like he had any business as a starting NFL CB.  If he's going to be a full time starter, he's got a lot of work to do.  His injuries last year were a  problem but nearly as big of a problem as his sloppy technique and generally bad play.

That is a gross over simplification.

His problems with guys like Diggs, Jones, or Allen for the Chargers, stems from the inability to play press coverage.  Anybody who plays off coverage will get killed by them, just as Randall did.  As I said, if he learns to press, he will be very good.  He needs to learn to press.

Some of that is on the coaching staff.  I agree with LeRoy Butler- as a defensive back, if you go up to the line of scrimmage, you better get your hands on the receiver.  Yet our staff lets Randall come up to the line but not even try to get his hands on the guy.  sure, it is poor technique, but it is fixable with coaching.

For a second year corner to get off to a slow start prior to the injury isn't surprising.  That is not enough to write him off.
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Offline Donzo

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2017, 03:01:32 PM »
Randall had success in week one but after that he was exposed and exposed often.  He didn't appear on the injury report until week 5 last year.  His week 2 and week 3 stretch was probably as bad of a 2 game stretch as any CB in the NFL had last year.  Stephon Diggs and Marvin Jones both had career games and they did so in part because of Randall didn't look like he had any business as a starting NFL CB.  If he's going to be a full time starter, he's got a lot of work to do.  His injuries last year were a  problem but nearly as big of a problem as his sloppy technique and generally bad play.

Dude, another brutal post by you- just awful... You're always in such a rush to bellyache about things, you barely spend  any time looking at the facts. This is why you have so much egg on your face.... At least you were right about Bahki and Taylor being awful last year--  8)

Jones had like 6 catches that entire game and i don't think a single one was against Randall. Randall even made a hell of a an INT in that game taking the ball away from a WR... Jones beat Hawkins for that long TD before the half and Hyde for two his catches... And, this is the game he tweaked his groin.




Offline Donzo

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Re: Were Randall and Rollins a mistake?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2017, 03:02:39 PM »
Agree with Donzo.  McGinn has a history of making stupid comments like those in this article and then later writing a counter article as if his previous words were never in print.  But man his obvious TT bias is just getting worse and worse -- he just can't refrain from tyring to make inflammatory comments and it really serves to undermine the points he may be trying to make


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