December 15, 2017, 08:14:09 AM

Author Topic: The Cornerbacks  (Read 10086 times)

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Offline dannobanano

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The Cornerbacks
« on: May 20, 2017, 12:49:13 PM »
After Sam Shields was lost for the season/career last year, it was (primarily) up to Damarious Randall, Quinton Rollins, and LaDarius Gunter to hold down the fort. Josh Hawkins got a few snaps, but not many. Micah Hyde was pressed into duty on a regular basis while Randall and Rollins dealt with injury, and despite his "swiss army knife" versatility, he was less than ideal for the position.

It's a pretty good bet that House and King may be the Week 1 starters this year, and hope for a rebound year from Randall and Rollins, and try to get Gunter in a better role to help him succeed as well.

But there are a bunch of new faces at CB on the 90 man roster that could (but not a given) find their way onto the roster, or at least make it to the PS for insurance/development.
And some of these players are intriguing prospects, IMO.

Donatello Brown (age 26); Valdosta State; 6-0; 190; (didn't run at his pro day but read he is a 4.37 "40" guy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK7CLas34MI

Quote
Earned all-conference honors as a senior despite rarely being tested by opposing offenses. … Finished 2016 with 11 tackles, four passes broken up and two interceptions. … As a junior in 2015 had 30 tackles, five PBU and 1.5 tackles for loss. … Participated in the Tropical Bowl, an FBS Division I college football all-star game that showcases the top seniors to NFL scouts and general managers.
http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/gallery/green-bay-packers-2017-undrafted-free-agent-michael-clark-donatello-brown-thomas-evans-aaron-peck-adam-pankey-montay-crockett-capsules-050517


Lenzy Pipkins (age 23); Oklahoma State (by way of Louisiana-Monroe); 6-0; 196; 4.46

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB13ycdnn5Y

Quote
Played one year with the Cowboys as a graduate transfer. … had 38 tackles and two pass breakups in 2016. … Previously played 34 games (with 22 starts) at Louisiana Monroe where he had 104 tackles, seven tackles for loss, seven PBU, two interceptions and two sacks.


Raysean Pringle; (age 23); 6-0; 191; 4.42 (converting from RB/WR)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-H8RUIE_OQ

Quote
Ever since his Pop Warner days, Raysean Pringle’s coaches have moved him around.
From defense to offense, corner to running back, quarterback to receiver, he’s played all over the field.
“He’s a very special player,” Southern Utah offensive coordinator Justin Walterscheid said. “He’s a unique guy who I think could play five or six different positions on both sides of the ball. He can do so many things.”
http://www.thespectrum.com/story/sports/college/southern-utah/2016/09/29/suu-football-raysean-pringle-jumps-around-and-looks-space/91256442/


David Rivers III (age 22); 6-1; 186; 4.47

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzBqPp1ANCs

Quote
Analysis:
Rivers was graded as a middle-round pick entering the season but comes off a disappointing campaign where he failed to meet expectations. He offers next-level computer numbers and has previously displayed the necessary skills to line up in nickel or dime packages at the next level but must quickly produce in camp this summer to make a roster.
http://draftanalyst.com/david-rivers-iii

Combine these newcomers with PS holdover, Herb Waters, and does a trend seem evident??




Offline golfman

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2017, 01:45:03 PM »
I think you are correct that one or two free agent CB's could in fact find there way onto the 53, but count me out as far as 26 year old, free agent rookies go. Just not enough upside and the guy ain't coming to camp ready to be a shutdown CB this year.

I think the top 5 can play and all have various strengths. If Capers can allow them to do what they are comfortable with doing they could be an OK group. We have a good group of safeties so the secondary should be improved.
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Offline Donzo

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2017, 10:07:20 AM »
Good breakdown!

It's a nice group of UDFAs. Add in the two UDFAs from last year, Hawkins & Waters, and the Packers could replicate the Williams/Shields combo.

Online OneTwoSixFive

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2017, 11:25:32 AM »
Four guys. All 6'0" or 6'1", all at or near 190lb, none slower than 4.47.

Not much doubt Ted has a blueprint for his CB picks, though if the guy is bigger than usual, while still being talented, fast enough and (this is key for a big guy) athletic enough (see Kevin King) Ted will take him. KK is no Aaron Rouse, who wasn't as agile, and was a 4.6 40 speed safety.
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Offline Donzo

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2017, 05:55:33 PM »
Yep, really like the athleticism at CB & S, sans Gunter.


Offline dannobanano

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2017, 06:11:09 PM »
I like Gunter's style................physical, press..............it's just that against fast #1 WR's his lack of speed becomes a serious liability.

In certain packages, I think he could do fine.


But, onetwosixfive hit it right. There seems to have been a shift in the type of CB's that GB is looking for (at this time).

Also, it would not surprise me to see Ted look for another Josh Jones type DB in next years draft as well.

The more size/speed/strength/versatility you can bring on the back end of the defense, the better your chances are of matching up well against the different personnel packages that offenses want to put on the field.

Offline Donzo

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2017, 06:28:03 PM »
Gunter is just so slow, and he plays to his speed... For reference, if he moved to ILB, he'd be the slowest ILB on the roster... Not good.

Another downside to his game is he doesn't play on the special teams units, just too slow... It hurts when the 4th CB isn't contributing on STs.

Offline dannobanano

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2017, 08:55:01 PM »
Technique plays a role as well, but I hear what yer saying.

Offline skcusICH

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2017, 02:41:20 AM »
Gunter is just so slow, and he plays to his speed... For reference, if he moved to ILB, he'd be the slowest ILB on the roster... Not good.

Another downside to his game is he doesn't play on the special teams units, just too slow... It hurts when the 4th CB isn't contributing on STs.

Not making a case for his speed, but he wouldn't be the slowest ILB. If we're basing it on 40 times, he's right in the same neighbourhood as Ryan and Martinez. Basing it on real football, he clearly moves better on the field than either of those two...and by a fairly large margin.

What makes you believe he doesn't play special teams? As a rookie, yes, he was only on the game day roster for 8 games and did not play all the units. There were quite a few guys fighting for snaps there however. Hayward (106 snaps), Randall (115), Rollins (203), Goodson (199), Banjo (335), Hyde (215), and Richardson (50). There are only so many snaps to go around for those body types. Jeff Janis (288) should probably be included with those guys. While Gunter only had 46 snaps on special teams, 18 of those came against the Carolina Panthers and he responded with 2 very critical penalties and likely a trip to the dog house.

As a starting CB in 2016, he still played 117 special teams snaps. Again, the special teams depth was fairly large for that body type. Janis, Brice, and Evans were the guys week in and week out. Hyde played a lot of snaps besides the return duties. The other guys all got their share and opportunities, Randall, Rollins, Hawkins, Dorleant, Goodson, Burnett, and Clinton Dix. They all played more than just a handful of snaps on special teams. Does Gunter stand out on special teams? No. Does he play special teams? Yes.

I don't know, I'm pretty happy with Gunter as a backup boundary corner. Could be better obviously but it could be a lot worse too (1 example of many being Josh Hawkins' play vs. Detroit last year to give up a long TD just before half time). Gunter has had some pretty nice games against some great competition (also some terrible games). That's what you'd expect out of a backup. His skill set can be a benefit, but it's also highly situational.

Offline Donzo

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2017, 06:29:42 AM »
Technique plays a role as well, but I hear what yer saying.

That's his thing, he's a technician.

I do respect him and understand why he's appreciated. My hope is the better athletes beat him out.

Offline Donzo

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2017, 06:52:49 AM »
Not making a case for his speed, but he wouldn't be the slowest ILB. If we're basing it on 40 times, he's right in the same neighbourhood as Ryan and Martinez. Basing it on real football, he clearly moves better on the field than either of those two...and by a fairly large margin.

What makes you believe he doesn't play special teams? As a rookie, yes, he was only on the game day roster for 8 games and did not play all the units. There were quite a few guys fighting for snaps there however... Does Gunter stand out on special teams? No. Does he play special teams? Yes.

I don't know, I'm pretty happy with Gunter as a backup boundary corner. Could be better obviously but it could be a lot worse too (1 example of many being Josh Hawkins' play vs. Detroit last year to give up a long TD just before half time).

Sadly, he would be the slowest ILB... What made me come to that revelation was the Giants playoff game when I watched Ryan run past Gunter to get in on a tackle.

Yep, he's close to Ryan & Martinez in the 40, bless his heart, but not even close in the shuttle and 3-cone. Just going by memory, I think Gunter's shuttle was historically bad for a CB... Again, going by memory, Ryan & Martinez had excellent 3-cone times, which is good, and Gunter's was awful. Not as disastrous as his 40 & shuttle times, but still awful.

For football speed, I disagree with you, he's as slow and stiff as his workout numbers- he's like Lurch out there... He's a technician, very strong and a competitor. But, his movement skills are so poor it's always going to be an issue... For the Detroit game, Gunter was pretty bad that day, too.

Good points on the special teams play, I guess I was thinking about his rookie season... Still, as a depth CB, (and that's the best he should ever be) he needs to be a good special teams player... We'll see... 




Offline Twain

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2017, 08:14:50 AM »
I think an overlooked story line is where Kevin King will fit in early in the season.  The media assumes he will step in and start right away.

I am not so sure.  It is not unusual in the NFL for first round corners to take a bit to get used to the NFL game.  With some veteran talent sitting there as well, I could see him being in a role where he works into it a bit more slowly over the first part of the season, especially with Seattle being more of a running team and needing to contain Wilson. 

With King's length and speed he will play, and eventually start this season, but I don't see the starting role as a sure thing on day 1.  There will be some spots where he struggles or gets burned early on as he gets used to the speed and talent of the NFL.

Don't get me wrong- after watching the conference championship again where the defense couldn't have played worse in coverage, King was a great acquisition in my mind.  I just think he will need some time.
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Online craig

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2017, 09:13:37 AM »
Agree, no assumption at all that King will start early on; or be especially consistently good early on.  Often a default is that more experienced guys start and rookie rotates in.  With Packers bunch there really isn't any "status quo", so it's not like there are tenured starters or anything.  But I wouldn't be at all surprised if King was a rotation guy at first, and perhaps for some time, until/unless his play looks pretty good,and/or guys starting ahead are getting torched, or perhaps until somebody ahead bruises a toe or twists an ankle or has a sore knee or whatever. 

On the dark side, King is an exceptionally thin player for the NFL.  Whether he himself can stay un-compromised by injury for much or all of the camp/season is a question. 

Online craig

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2017, 09:22:36 AM »
I think Gunter is perhaps being over-criticized.  Yes, his combine numbers weren't good, and he's a limited man, not the perfect guy to cover Julio Jones.  (There is no such guy in green Bay).  But it seems like many posters are largely excusing the horrific awful play of Rollins and Randall on account of not being 100% physically, and that view has merit.  But Gunter was also hurt late last season?  Perhaps slow to start with, you can even less hold up to losing more. 

But if Randall/Rollins get a pass for injury, the same might to variable degree apply to Gunter. 

He's a big guy, so as with everybody may have some matchup usage. 

The other ironic thing is that by many reports, he's been perhaps the best "practice" corner for the team.  Many posters view our WR group as deep/asset, but with so little speed in our WR group, it may be that Gunter is a very good match for defending our guys in practice other than Janis/Davis.  So perhaps Jordy/Allison/Adams/Cobb don't expose Gunter's vulnerabilities very much, and the coaches based on grading practice film give him higher scores than Donzo does?   

Offline golfman

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Re: The Cornerbacks
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2017, 10:45:44 AM »
The Packers brought in House and drafted King with their first pick. I don't think anyone is being undervalued. I think the Packers staff gave us ample indication with those moves what they thought of the existing talent. If was more than a warning shot over the bow. It was a direct message to Randall, Rollins, Gunter and the rest to step up their game.

I do think there can be no reasonable debate that draws any conclusion other than Gunter was our best CB last year. Unfortunately, King was brought in to start in that spot. House likely has the inside track at the other boundary corner and Gunter doesn't play in the slot. Going to be difficult for him to get many reps short of injury.

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