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Author Topic: Coaching strengths/weaknesses  (Read 505 times)

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Offline golfman

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Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« on: July 30, 2017, 12:02:34 PM »
I think we've pretty much beaten every position group to death during the long off season. What are the Packers coaching strentghs and weaknesses going into the season?

Really, not wanting this to turn into a 'beotch' session, but true evaluations of what you want them to do differently.

I'll go first. I want McCarthy to go for the jugular more often. I don't want to sit on leads, until the game is WAY over. If we're up 3 scores in the 4th quarter, keep your hand on their throat. Keep the pressue on and keep doing what got you there in the first place.

I'll say ditto with Capers not trying to protect leads but staying aggressive. I think he deserves a ton of credit for the way the defense sort of held together given what he was dealing with in the secondary in particular.
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Online cheech

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2017, 12:21:45 PM »
1st quarter - 5.3 points (10th)
2nd quarter - 9.1(3rd)
3rd quarter- 4.8 (14th)
4th quarter - 8.5 (4th)

I agree, golf.  MM comes out in the 3rd quarter looking to run the ball and always seems to waste a possession or 2 as a result. 

I'd like to see Capers defense be truly dynamic.  Too often he  uses outdated and predictable coverage schemes in the secondary.  I'd love to see our big, physical corners be allowed to press receivers at the line and force QB's to hold on to the ball for longer periods of time. 

I'd love for MM to scheme receivers open rather than run 5 option routes that require everyone to win 1 on 1's as well.  For the sake of Rodgers playing into his 40's...
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Offline OneTwoSixFive

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2017, 12:42:52 PM »
I agree with McCarthy taking his foot off the pedal sometimes, when what he had been doing up to that point had been working well. Longtime head coaches are frequently of a 'consolidating' nature, when they are ahead.

I liken it to cricket. For years it was the accepted wisdom in the limited overs game (40 or 50 overs) to be batting defensively early, so the starting batsmen stayed in and then accelerated the scoring speed later in the innings. Everyone did it - that is until the Sri Lankans changed everything by going for their shots right from the first over. In a short space of time they were world champions. After that batsmen around the world were forced to change (and they have).

There is (there VERY MUCH is) such a thing as too aggressive, especially when ahead - but that is a bit different from just doing what you have been doing, which has worked well enough to put your team in the lead.

I'd like to see what Capers preferred defense is, now he has had multiple years of high picks there, and barring too much injury, he has plenty of good, flexible talent to work with. Will the 2,4,5 defense show up often now (which these days is now more of a 2,3,6) or will we have more 3,3,5 now. Even those description are awkward, given that safeties will play like linebackers sometimes. Perhaps we should call those defenses the 3,3,1,4 or the 2,2,1,5 (with the '1' being the safety playing more of a linebacker role).

I also liked what cheech said above my post, about preferring to see the corners playing press when we have the guys to do that.

I never liked O line coach Campen much for years, as many O linemen failed to live up to expectations (I also disliked a conversation he had with Favre years back, though the details are fuzzy now). Recently it has been a different story, numerous linemen have fared well under his guidance, and my confidence in him is restored. There is no offensive coach I dislike now (though I know very little about running backs coach Ben Simans.

On the defense I'm not sure what to make of linebackers coaches Moss and McCurley. I feel pretty ho-hum about them both, despite Moss being advanced to Associate Head Coach (several years back) along with his being linebackers coach.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 01:09:23 PM by OneTwoSixFive »
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Offline RT

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2017, 01:06:25 PM »
I thought this would be a good spot to share this article. For all of us, their has been some gut wrenching loses in the playoffs in the past few years. This is not meant to support any opinion, just food for thought.

 https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2017/7/12/15962594/historically-mike-mccarthy-has-blown-leads-at-exactly-the-same-rate

Online cpk1994

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2017, 01:54:35 PM »
There is (there VERY MUCH is) such a thing as too aggressive, especially when ahead - but that is a bit different from just doing what you have been doing, which has worked well enough to put your team in the lead.
One only needs to look at the playoff game against the Cardinals a couple of seasons ago. Bruce Arians, who was being prasied all the time for his aggressiveness, got absolutely torched by the locals for nearly costing them the game because his aggressiveness allowed the Packers to force OT.  This is the same Arians, mind you, who was being touted as a much better coach that McCarthy simply because he was aggressive.  Arians has done nothing the following season while McCarthy led his team to yet another conference title game.


 
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 01:56:32 PM by cpk1994 »
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Online cheech

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2017, 02:10:13 PM »
I remember that, CPK.  However, that seemed to be a single series where he threw it when he could have ran out most of the clock.  Stupid because it lacked awareness for the game situation. 

It seems that MM tries to run out the clock when 1.5 quarters are still remaining. 
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Online cpk1994

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2017, 02:47:33 PM »
I remember that, CPK.  However, that seemed to be a single series where he threw it when he could have ran out most of the clock.  Stupid because it lacked awareness for the game situation. 

It seems that MM tries to run out the clock when 1.5 quarters are still remaining.
It was more than a single series.

I disagree with the second statement as well.  He tries to run out the clock in teh 4th quarter, but tehcoach can't win, if he is aggressive by throwing hte ball and that fails, he is crucified for not running hte ball. If he runs the ball and that fails, he is crucified for not passing the ball. Fans need to realize there is no superior approach. Both work, both fail.

Let's also remember that McCarthy went aggressive at the end of the Dallas game and if Rodgers didn't have large hands, they fumble and would have lost. I' can gurantee if they had, the same people screaming he is too conservative would be roadting McCarthy for being too aggressive.
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Offline golfman

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2017, 03:29:10 PM »
I thought this would be a good spot to share this article. For all of us, their has been some gut wrenching loses in the playoffs in the past few years. This is not meant to support any opinion, just food for thought.

 https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2017/7/12/15962594/historically-mike-mccarthy-has-blown-leads-at-exactly-the-same-rate

Interesting article, but as a Packer fan I could care less what Hoody has or hasn't done with his team. Hoody lost a few of those games allowing Brady to win or lose it. I'm much more comfortable with that than losing because we try and run James Starks up the middle three times with Aaron Rodgers. McCarthy's record speaks for itself. Last year was one of his best years as a coach, IMO.

I'll stand by the fact we have an offensive line that is not known for run blocking. We can control and run out the clock with a heavy dose of putting the ball in #12's hand and running when they are off balance.

Look at the margin of victory with the '96 Packers and '10 Packers. Holmgren put teams away. McCarthy teams allow inferior opponents to hang around way too long.



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Online cheech

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2017, 03:32:32 PM »
I remember that, CPK.  However, that seemed to be a single series where he threw it when he could have ran out most of the clock.  Stupid because it lacked awareness for the game situation. 

It seems that MM tries to run out the clock when 1.5 quarters are still remaining.
It was more than a single series.

I disagree with the second statement as well.  He tries to run out the clock in teh 4th quarter, but tehcoach can't win, if he is aggressive by throwing hte ball and that fails, he is crucified for not running hte ball. If he runs the ball and that fails, he is crucified for not passing the ball. Fans need to realize there is no superior approach. Both work, both fail.

Let's also remember that McCarthy went aggressive at the end of the Dallas game and if Rodgers didn't have large hands, they fumble and would have lost. I' can gurantee if they had, the same people screaming he is too conservative would be roadting McCarthy for being too aggressive.

I don't mind taking a more conservative approach at the end of a game if the lead is truly safe.  I'm saying he should come out in the third quarter like it is still the 2nd quarter. 
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Offline RT

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2017, 04:29:35 PM »
I think we've pretty much beaten every position group to death during the long off season. What are the Packers coaching strentghs and weaknesses going into the season?

Really, not wanting this to turn into a 'beotch' session, but true evaluations of what you want them to do differently.

I'll go first. I want McCarthy to go for the jugular more often. I don't want to sit on leads, until the game is WAY over. If we're up 3 scores in the 4th quarter, keep your hand on their throat. Keep the pressue on and keep doing what got you there in the first place.

I'll say ditto with Capers not trying to protect leads but staying aggressive. I think he deserves a ton of credit for the way the defense sort of held together given what he was dealing with in the secondary in particular.

Only thing to me that seems to continually blow up in MM face that I wish he would change is his clock management before the half when the other team has the ball. All the number of times that he called Timeouts and the other team went on and scored are painful to think about. Many times giving the other team the momentum going into the half. I can think of several games were a team was dead and MM gave them life before the half and the Packers wound up losing a close game. Being aggressive is one thing, but I believe that is being stubborn to the point of costing the team wins. Not holding my breath that this will change this year, but I can hope.

Offline golfman

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2017, 04:49:28 PM »
I think we've pretty much beaten every position group to death during the long off season. What are the Packers coaching strentghs and weaknesses going into the season?

Really, not wanting this to turn into a 'beotch' session, but true evaluations of what you want them to do differently.

I'll go first. I want McCarthy to go for the jugular more often. I don't want to sit on leads, until the game is WAY over. If we're up 3 scores in the 4th quarter, keep your hand on their throat. Keep the pressue on and keep doing what got you there in the first place.

I'll say ditto with Capers not trying to protect leads but staying aggressive. I think he deserves a ton of credit for the way the defense sort of held together given what he was dealing with in the secondary in particular.

Only thing to me that seems to continually blow up in MM face that I wish he would change is his clock management before the half when the other team has the ball. All the number of times that he called Timeouts and the other team went on and scored are painful to think about. Many times giving the other team the momentum going into the half. I can think of several games were a team was dead and MM gave them life before the half and the Packers wound up losing a close game. Being aggressive is one thing, but I believe that is being stubborn to the point of costing the team wins. Not holding my breath that this will change this year, but I can hope.

This is very legitimate. I've been bemoaning this everytime he's done it. The last time he did it Rodgers hit on a Hail Mary. I think that now makes him 1 for 27 in those situations. Sadly, I do not see his behavior changing this season either.

It's one thing for a team with a dominant defense to do this. It's another for our coach to do this with the way we've played defense since 2010.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 04:50:03 PM by golfman »
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Online cpk1994

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2017, 05:23:43 PM »
I'll stand by the fact we have an offensive line that is not known for run blocking. We can control and run out the clock with a heavy dose of putting the ball in #12's hand and running when they are off balance.
Like the NFC Title game against Seattle...oh wait. Rodgers played like ass in that game until after the defense collapsed.

Being aggressive is not the superior strategy people try to insist it is. It can blow up in your face just as much as it can work. This goes for all strategies.  What should be focused on is the lack of execution by the players in crucial situations. That is the bigger problem than MM's situational play calling.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 06:31:24 PM by cpk1994 »
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Online cpk1994

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2017, 05:26:23 PM »
Only thing to me that seems to continually blow up in MM face that I wish he would change is his clock management before the half when the other team has the ball. All the number of times that he called Timeouts and the other team went on and scored are painful to think about. Many times giving the other team the momentum going into the half. I can think of several games were a team was dead and MM gave them life before the half and the Packers wound up losing a close game. Being aggressive is one thing, but I believe that is being stubborn to the point of costing the team wins. Not holding my breath that this will change this year, but I can hope.
Or maybe the defense does it's job on 3rd down like it did the first two downs. His strategy isn't the issue in those situations. The defense being complete failures is.

MM's play calling at the end of the first half has never cost them a game. Correlation does not = causation, especially when there is 30 minutes still left to play.   He doesn't need to change his strategy at all as it is a strategy that many coaches use in the NFL. I also have no issue with trying to get Rodgers the ball back to get another score, especially if they get the ball to start the second half.  I mean, people want MM to be aggressive right?

The defense simply needs to do it's job for once. It's what they get paid to do after all.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 06:37:29 PM by cpk1994 »
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Offline golfman

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2017, 06:10:27 PM »
Only thing to me that seems to continually blow up in MM face that I wish he would change is his clock management before the half when the other team has the ball. All the number of times that he called Timeouts and the other team went on and scored are painful to think about. Many times giving the other team the momentum going into the half. I can think of several games were a team was dead and MM gave them life before the half and the Packers wound up losing a close game. Being aggressive is one thing, but I believe that is being stubborn to the point of costing the team wins. Not holding my breath that this will change this year, but I can hope.
Or maybe the defense does it's job on 3rd down like it did the first two downs. His strategy isn't the issue in those situations. The defense being complete failures is.

MM's play calling at the end of the first half has never cost them a game. Correlation does not = causation.  He doesn't nmeed to change his strategy at all. The defense needs to do it's job for once.

The definition of insanity is doing something over and over and expecting a different result.

Except he's done it too many times to count on first down. Then his defense gets blown up on 2nd down and they score. Maybe the correct strategy is to go into halftime with the lead and the momentum given your defense hasn't stopped anybody on a consistent basis for years.

Just one question for you. Why is it you always come in here taking a contrarian point of view, even when the evidence is obvious just to start an argument? It is counterproductive.

For the record, when we had a defense like 2010 I'm all for it. If we have a top 5 defense this year, a defense that consitently gets off the field I'm all for it. We haven't had one of those in many years now.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 06:19:33 PM by golfman »
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Online cpk1994

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Re: Coaching strengths/weaknesses
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2017, 06:21:50 PM »
Only thing to me that seems to continually blow up in MM face that I wish he would change is his clock management before the half when the other team has the ball. All the number of times that he called Timeouts and the other team went on and scored are painful to think about. Many times giving the other team the momentum going into the half. I can think of several games were a team was dead and MM gave them life before the half and the Packers wound up losing a close game. Being aggressive is one thing, but I believe that is being stubborn to the point of costing the team wins. Not holding my breath that this will change this year, but I can hope.
Or maybe the defense does it's job on 3rd down like it did the first two downs. His strategy isn't the issue in those situations. The defense being complete failures is.

MM's play calling at the end of the first half has never cost them a game. Correlation does not = causation.  He doesn't nmeed to change his strategy at all. The defense needs to do it's job for once.

The definition of insanity is doing something over and over and expecting a different result.

Except he's done it too many times to count on first down. Then his defense gets blown up on 2nd down and they score. Maybe the correct strategy is to go into halftime with the lead and the momentum given your defense hasn't stopped anybody on a consistent basis for years.

Just one question for you. Why is it you always come in here taking a contrarian point of view, even when the evidence is obvious just to start an argument? It is counterproductive.
Oh the horror of a head coach actually demanding his defense do the job it is paid to do. There are many times they get the stops on 1st and second downs, then they get hit for a long gain to extend the drive. i would rather have a coach that demands his defense do their job instead of accepting failure.

Just one question for you. Why do you have to bully and belittle everyone who doesn't agree with you with the sole purpose of baiting them into flaming you?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 06:24:45 PM by cpk1994 »
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