August 18, 2017, 01:03:31 PM

Author Topic: Defense Better in 2017 ?  (Read 2321 times)

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Offline golfman

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2017, 09:53:43 AM »
Given the amount of top picks dedicated to the defense the past three drafts it is time for the defense to pick it up. IF they do there is a good chance we'll be hoisting the Lombardi!
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Online iarwain

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2017, 11:38:33 AM »
They are what they are until they prove that they are better.
I'm with you, I'm going to have to see it before I start to believe in them.
How hard can it be to field a decent defense?  Pretty damn hard apparently.

Offline Mazrimiv

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2017, 11:45:30 AM »
I still think they will spend more time in the base 3-4 because of the strength of the DL group. This will allow them to be stronger against the run and will allow DC to utilize his fire zone blitz packages in ways he has not been able to do in years past.

If the definition of "base" includes 3 DL with Burnett/Jones taking one of the ILB slots, I agree.

Offline Mazrimiv

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2017, 12:01:44 PM »
Generally speaking, I think significant improvement on defense hinges primarily on two factors.

1) Two competent CB's emerge
2) Matthews and Perry stay healthy, but get enough rest to avoid wearing down.

If both of those happen, the defense should be in decent shape.  Add a 3rd competent CB, and the defense should be top 10.  If neither #1 or #2 pan out, it's going to be ugly.

To me, the most likely scenario is #1 happens, but #2 does not.  I think that puts the defense somewhere in the 20-25 range.  Probably not good enough.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 12:05:56 PM by Mazrimiv »

Offline Gregg

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2017, 12:32:10 PM »
I agree with cheech.

What I see as the strength of this defense is in the back end.  Green Bay has some good and versatile safeties.  In addition to Burnett and Dix, there are Brice and the rookie Jones.  The last two can really hit.

If King comes through as I think he can, and House is what he was before in GB, then the back end of this defense should be fairly  good.

But as they say, that is something that has to play out.  We will see.

Offline RT

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2017, 04:32:08 PM »
They are what they are until they prove that they are better.
I'm with you, I'm going to have to see it before I start to believe in them.
How hard can it be to field a decent defense?  Pretty damn hard apparently.

They are 7 days (5 padded) into training camp, what are they supposed to prove they are better than? The 1st day of practice? This is a new year and last year has nothing to do with this years performance.

  DEFENSE NFL
Year  Tot Ru Pa
2016 22 8 31
2015 15 21 6
2014 15 23 10
2013 25 25 24
2012 11 17 11
2011 32 14 32
2010  5 18 5
2009  2 1 5
2008 20 26 12
2007 11 14 12
2006 12 13 17
2005 7 23 1

From year to year it is proven that the previous years results are no indicator of the next years performance. In 2009 they had the 1st ranked run defense, 2010 18th. 2010 they had 5th ranked pass defense, 2011 32nd. 2010 5th overall, 2011 32nd. 2015 6th ranked pass defense, 2016 31st.

As much as some here want to harp on last years results, they don't matter. This is a new year with some new players and some old players with new health. Live in the past if you like, but I prefer the future.     

Online iarwain

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2017, 06:30:34 PM »
This is a new year with some new players and some old players with new health. Live in the past if you like, but I prefer the future.   
I'm fine with the future, I just need to see what that future is before I get too optimistic.

As I said before, I think the secondary will improve (couldn't be any worse), but the pass rush may take a step back.  Time will tell.

Offline golfman

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2017, 08:03:07 PM »
I think the pass rush will improve because the overall defense is faster. Color me silly, but I didn't see very many explosive plays from Jones or Peppers last year in the pass rush. Yes, a few from Peppers but Fackrell, Elliott and Jones from linebacker have a chance to really get there in a hurry when they win.

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Online cheech

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2017, 09:38:22 PM »
They are what they are until they prove that they are better.
I'm with you, I'm going to have to see it before I start to believe in them.
How hard can it be to field a decent defense?  Pretty damn hard apparently.

They are 7 days (5 padded) into training camp, what are they supposed to prove they are better than? The 1st day of practice? This is a new year and last year has nothing to do with this years performance.

  DEFENSE NFL
Year  Tot Ru Pa
2016 22 8 31
2015 15 21 6
2014 15 23 10
2013 25 25 24
2012 11 17 11
2011 32 14 32
2010  5 18 5
2009  2 1 5
2008 20 26 12
2007 11 14 12
2006 12 13 17
2005 7 23 1

From year to year it is proven that the previous years results are no indicator of the next years performance. In 2009 they had the 1st ranked run defense, 2010 18th. 2010 they had 5th ranked pass defense, 2011 32nd. 2010 5th overall, 2011 32nd. 2015 6th ranked pass defense, 2016 31st.

As much as some here want to harp on last years results, they don't matter. This is a new year with some new players and some old players with new health. Live in the past if you like, but I prefer the future.   

My goodness.  Lay off the coffee and take a chill pill, RT. 

The ebb and flow from one season to the next is quite obvious.  That's why I'd like to see this defense prove that it's better once the games get started.  I explained my opinion of the defense after that first sentence and elsewhere over the last week. I'm sure you've read it.  There are some aspects of this defense that I'm excited about and there are some aspects that I think need to be addressed if the same old scheme is going to be utilized 75% of the time.  I think that's fairly balanced. You seem he'll bent on going after me though.  Good luck. 
I'm right and everyone else does not have an opinion worth talking about.

Online iarwain

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2017, 09:46:40 PM »
I think the pass rush will improve because the overall defense is faster.
I hope you're right.  My concern is that a few key injuries will leave us short handed, similar (but different) to the cornerback position last year.  And there is the question whether or not Matthews hamstrings can hold up to playing more OLB.

Offline RT

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2017, 10:06:23 PM »
They are what they are until they prove that they are better.
I'm with you, I'm going to have to see it before I start to believe in them.
How hard can it be to field a decent defense?  Pretty damn hard apparently.

They are 7 days (5 padded) into training camp, what are they supposed to prove they are better than? The 1st day of practice? This is a new year and last year has nothing to do with this years performance.

  DEFENSE NFL
Year  Tot Ru Pa
2016 22 8 31
2015 15 21 6
2014 15 23 10
2013 25 25 24
2012 11 17 11
2011 32 14 32
2010  5 18 5
2009  2 1 5
2008 20 26 12
2007 11 14 12
2006 12 13 17
2005 7 23 1

From year to year it is proven that the previous years results are no indicator of the next years performance. In 2009 they had the 1st ranked run defense, 2010 18th. 2010 they had 5th ranked pass defense, 2011 32nd. 2010 5th overall, 2011 32nd. 2015 6th ranked pass defense, 2016 31st.

As much as some here want to harp on last years results, they don't matter. This is a new year with some new players and some old players with new health. Live in the past if you like, but I prefer the future.   

My goodness.  Lay off the coffee and take a chill pill, RT. 

The ebb and flow from one season to the next is quite obvious.  That's why I'd like to see this defense prove that it's better once the games get started.  I explained my opinion of the defense after that first sentence and elsewhere over the last week. I'm sure you've read it.  There are some aspects of this defense that I'm excited about and there are some aspects that I think need to be addressed if the same old scheme is going to be utilized 75% of the time.  I think that's fairly balanced. You seem he'll bent on going after me though.  Good luck.

With you feeling the need to respond to every post I make, I'm beginning to think you have a crush on me!

Offline DWhitehurst

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2017, 02:05:12 AM »
I'm hope I'm wrong, but I question whether the defense will be better, at least better than last year's defense come playoff time. I think the CB unit is shakey. King tested like a high first rounder, but he didn't play like one from what I saw on tape. I think if he turns into something decent, it's gonna take a couple seasons. I think Randall may be a bust. I don't think defending the slot is his strong suit (if he had one). I like the Dline. That and the safeties should be the strong suit of the defense. While I think ILB should be improved this year, still I think OLB is a big question mark in terms of durability, depth. I'm not sold on Fackrell, at least not in setting the edge for run defense.  Got rag-dolled alot last year. He may get a few sacks, maybe 4 or 5, but I'd be shocked if he got more.

In short, I don't think the Defense will be worse than last year, but I have my doubts that come playoff time, this year's defense will be any significantly better than last year's. Having said that, I hope like heck I am wrong and eat alot of crow.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 02:11:54 AM by DWhitehurst »

Online Pugger

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2017, 08:06:18 AM »
I'm hope I'm wrong, but I question whether the defense will be better, at least better than last year's defense come playoff time. I think the CB unit is shakey. King tested like a high first rounder, but he didn't play like one from what I saw on tape. I think if he turns into something decent, it's gonna take a couple seasons. I think Randall may be a bust. I don't think defending the slot is his strong suit (if he had one). I like the Dline. That and the safeties should be the strong suit of the defense. While I think ILB should be improved this year, still I think OLB is a big question mark in terms of durability, depth. I'm not sold on Fackrell, at least not in setting the edge for run defense.  Got rag-dolled alot last year. He may get a few sacks, maybe 4 or 5, but I'd be shocked if he got more.

In short, I don't think the Defense will be worse than last year, but I have my doubts that come playoff time, this year's defense will be any significantly better than last year's. Having said that, I hope like heck I am wrong and eat alot of crow.

I think it might be a tad premature to declare our defense will not be any better before a preseason game is played.

Offline Twain

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2017, 08:19:18 AM »

I think it might be a tad premature to declare our defense will not be any better before a preseason game is played.

I agree Pugger.

Take the CB's for instance- If they can stay healthy, they will undoubtably be better.  For argument purposes, if you accept the notion that Randall is a bust, replacing him with House will be an upgrade. 

Count me as someone who had written off Rollins on the outside, but I have to admit, he looks much better so far.  He looks more focused and aggressive- squaring up and getting his hands on the receiver controlling his release.  He certainly bears watching to see if he can continue it when games start.

I agree that King doesn't look that good right now- Cobb turned him the wrong way on a simple breaking route, and Nelson schooled him earlier in the week, but it is a long season and he has time to keep working and get into his technique more.

I don't know that we have a guy on the roster that can go with Julio Jones, but if we have guys that can go one-on-one with their second and third option then we can double Jones and have a reasonable chance of slowing Atlanta enough to stay with them and beat them.

I am looking forward to this season.  If the team can stay healthy, they could be very good.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 08:21:07 AM by Twain »
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Online SDProfessor

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Re: Defense Better in 2017 ?
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2017, 02:28:53 PM »
It will be hard for the defense to be as bad as they were last year. In fact, I think they'll be a decent defense as long as these things happen (but its a long-shot):

1) DL is able to hold their run gaps and generate some pass rush to make up for losing some OLB talent. I think this is reasonably probable -- they're a talented position group and young. Lowry and Clark are pretty exciting.
2) Burnett or Jones needs to emerge as a playmaker on the second-level. I'm skeptical that Burnett has the size...maybe Jones. But success here really improves speed in the middle of the defense.
3) Perry and CM3 need to be healthy and effective, because the edge players are a really thin unit. Fackrell and Elliot still have a lot to prove and Biegel is not practicing. I'm surprised they left this position so vulnerable in the offseason. Maybe most important on the defense. Peppers and Datone were around average according to PFF, but they were big guys that made plays from time to time.
4) House and King have to be able to at least run with NFL WRs. It's frankly shocking GB wasn't burned more last season considering how bad these CBs struggled.

I'm not saying it's impossible for these things to happen. But it's a lot to ask. Frankly, I'm more worried about the depth at OLB than I am the play of the CBs.

I expect the DL and S groups to be really strong and I believe Brice will take a big step forward. But I guess we'll see.